Cliqueyness in tango :(

I was told by one of the teachers to go to as many different teachers and classes as poss.. I don't know - is this advisable?

Highly advisable. Argentine Tango has been around for over a hundred years, both as music and as a dance. There are many styles and ways of approaching the dance. Also, even if one particular instructor knows everything there is to know about the dance, which is unlikely, they will emphasize certain things, if only because you can't teach everything at once.

somebody (at least the teacher) should share this with you, not avoid dancing with you, make sarcastic remarks, reject you socially, etc.
I would say, especially the teachers, and the use of sarcasm, etc is totally inappropriate and amatuerish, unless they know you so well that they know you would "get it", and that obviously isn't the case here..
 
Several members already gave very sound advice. In my not so long tango history, most people of the community have been friendly to me. I have also encountered some behavior similar to what the OP describes. What helped me to deal with it:

In class, focus on learning. Right now, I go regularly to the class where I am, perhaps, the most experienced dancer. But I do not feel superior to any other student in the class, because I am there to work on my fundamentals, just as anyone else. I believe learning tango also teaches you how to be humble and patient with yourself, and your partner. Take it with gratitude.

If somebody less experienced asks for your assistance, be helpful, but not condescending. Remember, everything is relative. Levels are relative, there is always so much you still have to learn, and by helping others you learn a lot. So be thankful for that, too.

Do not let people get away with bullying!
If somebody makes an unpleasant remark, for the first time, give it a benefit of the doubt. It might be a misunderstanding. If it happens again, do not let it go. Do not pretend you did not hear. Ask, "Excuse me?" "What do you mean by that?" One time, a man who was saying offensive stuff to me, and whom I called on it started, "Oh, it was a joke, I was merely kidding!" I replied "Maybe for you it was, but I did not enjoyed it at all. I do not like that kind of jokes."
Most of the time it will be enough to stop that behavior. Bullies are whimps. They usually aim at those who (they believe) would not stand for themselves.

Be assertive, that means nice and polite to everyone, but mark your boundaries clear. Tune off the negative: cliques, insecurities and gossip, focus on the positive: your learning process, making progress, making friends. Enjoy yourself!
 
Re: ..sounds wrong

..... ~bailarina~, I am not familiar with your situtation, but the behavior from the other dancers sounds wrong, even if they had been given a reason to be less than friendly. If there were something uncomfortable about your dancing, somebody (at least the teacher) should share this with you, not avoid dancing with you, make sarcastic remarks, reject you socially, etc...

Hi Me, I don´t agree with this. You know, that the TA scene is like a big theatre play, with many acts, many players, a main, and many minor stories, many layers within every plot ... a.s.o.

So, when you enter the scene, you try to play the role that you like to, or you are as innocent as could be.

If someone only wants to dance, he/she will find the room and the people to do so. If someone seeks self-affirmation (sorry my english) he/she will achieve it; if someone complaines about the scene, he/she will do everything to fulfill this. And if someone feels insecure about his own behavior, but wants to learn more, he/she will ask for advice, as shown here.
 
Hi Bailarina, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear your tale of woe. I have certainly found that the dance scene, and perhaps particularly the tango scene, is beset with gossip, back-biting and shifting social undercurrents but maybe the key ingredient to coping with it lies in managing your own responses to what you find. I certainly found elements of the scene extremely difficult when I began but it eased with time.

Other people have given very good advice already, this is what I would add.

1.Don't get involved in the petty details of who said what to whom. I don't know how you know that nasty things have been said about you behind your back - ideally, avoid all situations where someone might report this kind of thing to you. What would be their motives for telling you, and how could you be sure that they have reported accurately? So much depends on interpretation - so although I feel for you as I read your account it is impossible to know from what you say what is really going on.

2.If someone puts you down openly and directly then you have the chance to deal with it in the same manner. If necessary go home, think about what you'd like to say, and have a quiet word at another time. If in doubt say nothing.

3.Remember that many people are desperately self-centred so behaviour that has cut you to the quick (such as ignoring you or "being unfriendly") may not have nearly as much significance to them as it does to you and could possibly even be accidental. People at a busy dance venue cannot possibly speak to all acquaintances each and every time so failing to greet you may not mean much - and you could pre-empt that by smiling brightly as you take the initiative in greeting them.

4. Establish your own goals and priorities and do not be deflected from them, even if this seems like a lonely path. However, do not push others aside to achieve those goals, especially other followers who will be slow to forgive.

5.Be on pleasant terms with everyone and do not get into antagonistic situations or mindsets, even with people who you feel have treated you badly or that you don't care for much. If the situation is really getting to you, walk away from it for a week or two to recover your mental equilibrium before returning to it. If you are in tears at the end of a session it would seem that this is well overdue.

6.If people gossip about you it suggests their own life seems less interesting to them than yours. Which is a kind of back-handed compliment. Also, people gossip as a means of bonding themselves into a clique, unpleasant and negative as that behaviour might seem. So you are well out of it.

7.Take compliments lightly. I can't recall the number of times someone has been complimentary about my dancing only to ignore me later, fail to recognise me or some such slight. It will drive you nuts if you let it. It's nice if someone says something nice to you but the dance world can be very shallow and it's best not to expect too much. This especially applies to teachers.

8.Look for individuals who may be on your wavelength and cultivate their friendship. There are enough lovely solo ladies on the tango scene for there to be an excellent choice. I would avoid gossipy, girly, manipulative cliques; as you rightly point out, all that should have been left behind in high school and you have the choice to rise above that kind of immature behaviour.

9.You will have good nights and bad nights. At my local milonga there are occasions when I am never off the floor and others when I am tapping my feet with frustration all night. Don't assume that leaders don't want to dance with you, maybe they are busy. Maybe they want you to ask them. Maybe they are tired. Maybe their wife needs attention. It will all turn into an agonising head-game if you let it. And the worse you feel, the more repellent you become to potential partners - it's a well-known effect!

10. Don't turn dance ability into a huge issue. It's noticeable that women who I know (or have heard:rolleyes:) are terrible followers are often asked to dance just as lovely followers may be sitting out. Relative ability at dancing is not important - what matters is whether you are enjoying your dancing and making progress within your own terms of reference.

11.Have faith in people's niceness. Decent people will be glad for you if you are making good progress and dance beautifully, particularly if you are very modest about your abilities. Why not? There will always be people more and less accomplished than oneself and recognising that is the route to happy self-acceptance for all of us.
 
The Flower Speaks The Truth.

7.Take compliments lightly. I can't recall the number of times someone has been complimentary about my dancing only to ignore me later, fail to recognise me or some such slight.
Who are you? :confused: :D

(And in case I've not said it recently, you're one of my fave dancers :wink:

Relative ability at dancing is not important - what matters is whether you are enjoying your dancing and making progress within your own terms of reference.
Yep. It's not a race, it's not a competition. In the long run, we're all dead. As long as you're making progress and enjoying yourself, be happy with that.
 
Daniel Trenner told a story at a Montreal Tango Festival 10 years ago. I don't tell it as well as he does. (I hope I get this right.) He said that no matter how good you are, how many lessons you take, there will always be people who will NEVER like you. Sometimes, familiarity breeds contempt.

There is a definite sting to tango, like a novocaine injection, when we are ignored or rejected. I suggest going to a milonga in a near by city.

The bottom line is we rarely find out why certain people won't dance with us. At first, it's easy to think there's something wrong with us. Don't make the mistake I made and use other people's reactions as a sign of self validation. Don't give that power to those who don't care about you.

Michael
Washington, DC
Two weeks to the NY Tango Festival www.celebratetango.com
 
The Flower Speaks The Truth.


Who are you? :confused: :D

(And in case I've not said it recently, you're one of my fave dancers :wink:


Yep. It's not a race, it's not a competition. In the long run, we're all dead. As long as you're making progress and enjoying yourself, be happy with that.

I agree with that: i saw some photos of my last milonga; if i look with a teachers critical eye everyone bar two people were crap; if i look with my heart; actually they're all quite happy dancing to the best of their ability.

And the guy who looked best in the photos wasnt me it was an absolute beginner who took a step ever ten seconds or so. (I'm just a blur too fast for digital cameras;) )
 
Hi Me, I don´t agree with this. You know, that the TA scene is like a big theatre play, with many acts, many players, a main, and many minor stories, many layers.

Not forgetting countless prats with oversized ego. One should just learn to deal with it. As we do in other parts of society. It got better for me when I switched from the "role" that I thought any new tanguera should adapt (?) and back to the real me which is: "unless you help to put food on my plate I don't need you". Translated (mistakenly) by most as "arrogant". Either way it worked. Weirdly, most tend to translate one's self-sufficiency as something apocryphic which manifests as a desirable quest for something to tap into. Hmm...I suppose when our mums advised us as girls to play hard to get, she had a point eh? :rolleyes:;)
 
Not forgetting countless prats with oversized ego. One should just learn to deal with it. As we do in other parts of society. It got better for me when I switched from the "role" that I thought any new tanguera should adapt (?) and back to the real me which is: "unless you help to put food on my plate I don't need you". Translated (mistakenly) by most as "arrogant". Either way it worked. Weirdly, most tend to translate one's self-sufficiency as something apocryphic which manifests as a desirable quest for something to tap into. Hmm...I suppose when our mums advised us as girls to play hard to get, she had a point eh? :rolleyes:;)


Interesting. I am learning, over and over again, that being a nice person who tries to work well with others only gets me walked all over and heavily disrespected. The level of disrespect from some of the local dancers is truly ridiculous. What makes them believe they can treat me like this? Oh, wait. They think they can get away with it; that must be it.

People complain, frequently, about other dancers or some instructors who seem "uppity" because they're pretty much all business and don't try to be friends with groups of people. Maybe I'd rather be assigned the descriptor "arrogant" than to be the constant target of disrespect.
 
Interesting. I am learning, over and over again, that being a nice person who tries to work well with others only gets me walked all over and heavily disrespected. The level of disrespect from some of the local dancers is truly ridiculous. What makes them believe they can treat me like this? Oh, wait. They think they can get away with it; that must be it.

People complain, frequently, about other dancers or some instructors who seem "uppity" because they're pretty much all business and don't try to be friends with groups of people. Maybe I'd rather be assigned the descriptor "arrogant" than to be the constant target of disrespect.

Man, that is just sad, 'Me'. It should not have to come down to this. Personally, I just refuse to attend any venues where this kind of negative, disrespectful vibe exists.

For heaven's sake, this is a leisure activity! Tango is not an office or a business career. It is something beautiful. Beauty cannot be created with the kind of atmosphere you describe and so I just avoid it. Quite frankly that's why I haven't been to a milonga in months. I do a lot of WCS but there's a certain place I don't attend because of that same reason. :(
 
Interesting. I am learning, over and over again, that being a nice person who tries to work well with others only gets me walked all over and heavily disrespected. The level of disrespect from some of the local dancers is truly ridiculous. What makes them believe they can treat me like this? Oh, wait. They think they can get away with it; that must be it.

People complain, frequently, about other dancers or some instructors who seem "uppity" because they're pretty much all business and don't try to be friends with groups of people. Maybe I'd rather be assigned the descriptor "arrogant" than to be the constant target of disrespect.


I agree with this; I tried to instil a codigo of respect for people at my classes and milongas.

recently a friend of mine organised an event with guest teachers, and they got "hijacked" by a punter and went off for a late night session and my friend was livid; it nearly ended in a fist fight the follwoing morning when the punter turned up for the workshops. She put a lot off effort into organising the event and one oaf has put her off doing any more.

Once this sort of stuff starts it seems to escalate; just a couple of rotten apples.....

You put trust in people and you get s*** in return.
 
Interesting. I am learning, over and over again, that being a nice person who tries to work well with others only gets me walked all over and heavily disrespected. The level of disrespect from some of the local dancers is truly ridiculous. What makes them believe they can treat me like this? Oh, wait. They think they can get away with it; that must be it.

People complain, frequently, about other dancers or some instructors who seem "uppity" because they're pretty much all business and don't try to be friends with groups of people. Maybe I'd rather be assigned the descriptor "arrogant" than to be the constant target of disrespect.

Remember the wonderful words of Eleanor Roosevelt about not allowing anyone to treat you with disrespect without your permission? Good words. Some do, continue to allow it and then that becomes a reflection on how they view themselves. I have to live with the constant reminder of my father's words about developing a knee-jerk reaction. He's steeped in the Old Testament way of thinking and all that eye for eye stuff. Which of course for others can be exhausting after a while. Especially if it doesn't come naturally and is out of their nature. That said, one doesn't need to be a weed to adopt an attitude of self-preserverance along with self-confidence. And that's what it's all about. Confidence in not your dancing but in yourself from the core. The rest is just frills. I mean, (as recent media events have proved) at the end of the day? We're dead. So while we're here let it count and living by the advice of Eleanor Roosevelt. (Remain your sweet self and Karma will do the rest).

p.s. re. arrogant teachers (who clearly are yet to master the art of arrogance at its most artful :-)) I remember a year after my beginnership I remarked on how tedious I found Negrachas (on particular night). My teacher's response to me in front of others was "oooh, Heather thinks she's above and beyond Negrachas". My reply: "Yeah. You're right. I am". ;-)
 
p.s. re. arrogant teachers (who clearly are yet to master the art of arrogance at its most artful :-)) I remember a year after my beginnership I remarked on how tedious I found Negrachas (on particular night). My teacher's response to me in front of others was "oooh, Heather thinks she's above and beyond Negrachas". My reply: "Yeah. You're right. I am". ;-)

Do you give lessons in arrogance? I'd come!
 

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