Close Embrace Clinic... A quandry of embraces

[Zoopsia59]

It's just plain ol' breathing. Sometimes people tend to hold their breath when they dance. Try taking a deep, slow inhale and exhale while you are walking with your partner. Sometimes your partner will also take a breath when she feels you do it.

Oscar talked about the breathing of the couple being like the expansion and contraction of the bandoneon. He encouraged my partner to use breathing with the movement to help me feel when he was going to move, especially for the very first step. An inhalation sends a "get ready" message, and the exhalation occurs with the movement.

Naturally, you can't make this happen for every movement and every breath. Its for slower dancing and pauses as well as an exercise in moving together when practicing connection.

 

[bastet]

Oscar talked about the breathing of the couple being like the expansion and contraction of the bandoneon. He encouraged my partner to use breathing with the movement to help me feel when he was going to move, especially for the very first step. An inhalation sends a "get ready" message, and the exhalation occurs with the movement.

Naturally, you can't make this happen for every movement and every breath. Its for slower dancing and pauses as well as an exercise in moving together when practicing connection.

One of the teachers I work with now uses that a lot and it can be quite useful and he has a "magic" embrace too.

 

[Subliminal]

My teacher also uses breathing. She actually taught it to me first as a way of indicating changes in rhythm, such as a syncopated step.

 

[JohnEm]

Oscar talked about the breathing of the couple being like the expansion and contraction of the bandoneon. He encouraged my partner to use breathing with the movement to help me feel when he was going to move, especially for the very first step. An inhalation sends a "get ready" message, and the exhalation occurs with the movement.

Naturally, you can't make this happen for every movement and every breath. Its for slower dancing and pauses as well as an exercise in moving together when practicing connection.

Oh don't teachers have some weird ideas.

I don't breathe like a bandoneon and certainly don't want to sound like one.
And why make it so complicated, if I want your chest to move I move
my chest - simple. Shouldn't the teacher be teaching followers to be
always ready and ready for the unexpected too? So why another signal?
And to make it work you probably have synchronise breathing to the music.
Not saying it can't be done - but teaching it?

Occasionally as an emphasis I see the point but that is very individual.
And finally, I see the possibility of inducing breathing together is a consequence
of the physical chest connection not a cause of the connection, though under
some circumstances it could reinforce it.

It's much more important to ensure dancers breathe naturally (it's somehow
better than not breathing at all) so they can relax into the dance rather
than teach something so contrived. There's more than enough to cope with.

 

[bordertangoman]

Oh don't teachers have some weird ideas.

I don't breathe like a bandoneon and certainly don't want to sound like one.
And why make it so complicated, if I want your chest to move I move
my chest - simple. Shouldn't the teacher be teaching followers to be
always ready and ready for the unexpected too? So why another signal?
And to make it work you probably have synchronise breathing to the music.
Not saying it can't be done - but teaching it?

Occasionally as an emphasis I see the point but that is very individual.
And finally, I see the possibility of inducing breathing together is a consequence
of the physical chest connection not a cause of the connection, though under
some circumstances it could reinforce it.

It's much more important to ensure dancers breathe naturally (it's somehow
better than not breathing at all) so they can relax into the dance rather
than teach something so contrived. There's more than enough to cope with.

oh course along with breathing you have to synchronise heartbeats

 

[Dave Bailey]

Oh don't teachers have some weird ideas.

Actually, I've been taught the "inhale to signal" thing. It sort of works, at least as a starting point. It's all part of preparing yourself and your partner to move.

 

[tangobro]

Oh don't teachers have some weird ideas.

I don't breathe like a bandoneon and certainly don't want to sound like one.

This was mentioned in another thread:
http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?p=772217#post772217


I've had several teachers use that example - for breathing, for the embrace, for varying the dynamic of the dance. I don't think it was literal. I kind of thought it was a common metaphor amongst tangueros 'cause of the allusion to the song "Igual que un Bandoneon" (the same as a bandoneon).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxN4CWMHEPU

So - yes I've been taught (as part of the lead) to use the taking of a breath at the beginning of the movement to help indicate the change of dynamic, and that taking a breath as you begin to dance each musical phrase helps the dance. <Not that you hold your breath in between phrases>.

 

[Peaches]

The issue of breathing as it relates to dancing (and music) is one that fascinates me.

With the caveat that I can't remember my teacher(s) ever discussing it, and that I've never had a lesson with any of the people discussed in the thread, I'd like to offer my take on the idea of using breathing to signal.

I would highly doubt that any of the teachers meant (in saying to use the breath to help signal a lead of some sort) anything along the lines of "When I breathe *like this* it means *do that*." That doesn't make a damn lick of sense, IMO, and is completely antithetical to the notion of leading and following in AT...and somehow I would guess that the teachers being talked about have a bit of a clue in this regard.

However, if you take it out of the realm of the strictly literal interpretation, I believe it begins to make more sense. The act of inhaling, and how you do it, can change how you hold yourself and how you will move when you exhale...which can translate to your partner. A long, slow drawing-in of breath gives a feeling like tension building. It's a feeling of drawing up, and drawing in. Holding that breath for a second holds that tension; it creates a feeling of expectancy, of anticipation. Exhaling brings a release and relaxation. These are things that your partner can pick up on, and can help with the expression of music. Light, quick breaths bring more of a feeling of, well, lightness and quickness...which can be good for an entirely different sort of feeling.

If your breathing compliments your leading, instead of counteracting it, it can become very powerful. And if your partner is in tune with your feeling and your leading, it can be possible that you begin breathing at the same time. Not always, but at key moments. That, IMO, is a very deep connection. But if you're doing slow movement and panting...it's kind of distracting. It's not signaling anything, per se, but it's jarring.

Perhaps this is not what various teachers meant. I hardly mean to be putting words or concepts in their mouths. But it's the way that using breathing to complement leading and movement makes sense to me. YMMV.

 

[Subliminal]

That's a good interpretation! Yes, it's not something huge and obvious. It can be very subtle. So subtle a follower might feel the difference in the lead, but not consciously know it's coming from the breathing.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Oh don't teachers have some weird ideas.

I don't breathe like a bandoneon and certainly don't want to sound like one.
And why make it so complicated, if I want your chest to move I move
my chest - simple. Shouldn't the teacher be teaching followers to be
always ready and ready for the unexpected too? So why another signal?
And to make it work you probably have synchronise breathing to the music.
Not saying it can't be done - but teaching it?

Occasionally as an emphasis I see the point but that is very individual.
And finally, I see the possibility of inducing breathing together is a consequence
of the physical chest connection not a cause of the connection, though under
some circumstances it could reinforce it.

It's much more important to ensure dancers breathe naturally (it's somehow
better than not breathing at all) so they can relax into the dance rather
than teach something so contrived. There's more than enough to cope with.

You forget that these were PRIVATE lessons. It was an analogy to help my partner with his rather abrupt movement. Its possible that Oscar has never mentioned this to any other dancers but us. (unlikely, but possible) I hardly claimed it was his fallback teaching method that he expects of everyone who crosses his path and he spends 1/2 of a workshop talking esoterically.

As a tool and metaphor to help my partner smooth out his lead, it was genius. Expansion and contraction of movement (not the embrace, itself) are useful elements for a smooth and musical dance. It's fairly natural to coordinate the expansion and contraction of breathing with those movements, but if someone doesn't make use of the principle in their movement or their breathing, the whole dance feels stiff and jerky.

Disparage away if you like, but I think you missed the point.

 

[DerekWeb]

If you practice Tai Chi Chuan for many years, you will find your breathing and movements harmonize. I can readily believe the same can happen after many years of AT.

 

[Mario7]

It's just plain ol' breathing. Sometimes people tend to hold their breath when they dance. Try taking a deep, slow inhale and exhale while you are walking with your partner. Sometimes your partner will also take a breath when she feels you do it.

Yes, indeed before I read the rest...I noticed (months ago) that I could hold my breath for almost half the dance! hee hee...then later I noticed that the woman's breathing was a sign that she liked the dance...{A slow inhale exhale with a lost look on the face.}:kissme:

 

[Mario7]

An inhalation sends a "get ready" message, and the exhalation occurs with the movement..

Right, like lifting weights.

 

[JohnEm]

You forget that these were PRIVATE lessons. It was an analogy to help my partner with his rather abrupt movement. Its possible that Oscar has never mentioned this to any other dancers but us. (unlikely, but possible) I hardly claimed it was his fallback teaching method that he expects of everyone who crosses his path and he spends 1/2 of a workshop talking esoterically.

As a tool and metaphor to help my partner smooth out his lead, it was genius. Expansion and contraction of movement (not the embrace, itself) are useful elements for a smooth and musical dance. It's fairly natural to coordinate the expansion and contraction of breathing with those movements, but if someone doesn't make use of the principle in their movement or their breathing, the whole dance feels stiff and jerky.

I love it when people move the goalposts!

Making someone conscious of their intrusive breathing is a very
different situation from your fist post. Hopefully that helped to make
your partner more aware of the need to breathe in synchronicity
with the dance. His problem was the opposite of the one which gets
teachers saying "and breathe" when someone isn't.

Disparage away if you like, but I think you missed the point.

Well no, actually. Your original point was the one I rather disagreed with. Like this one -

Actually, I've been taught the "inhale to signal" thing. It sort of works, at least as a starting point. It's all part of preparing yourself and your partner to move.

- though the preparation part can be useful.

As in many things, it's a question of degree. Someone gets or is given
an idea and then it gets extended until it is given an importance way
beyond reason.

Peaches has given a very good explanation - as I said it's personal,
individual and not contrived. In other words you don't use your breathing
to give a signal but breathing can influence your signals and the
atmosphere of your dance. It can be intrusive and disruptive,
as in the case of Zoopsia's partner, or complementary and engaging
as per Peaches.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I love it when people move the goalposts!

Making someone conscious of their intrusive breathing is a very
different situation from your fist post.

In the same post that I first mentioned the breathing, I also mentioned that these were private lessons... any teacher worth their salt tailors the lesson to the needs of the individual. You made assumptions about the placement of the goalposts being an esoteric teaching method applicable to anyone and everyone. I never said that at all. I said that what he was talking about to us could be applicable to more than one EMBRACE.

My partner's breathing is not the reason for his abrupt movement, but a conscious approach to breathing would be one possible way to address the issue.