Close embrace

[Shaka]

I know I shouldn't ask, but what made you think your first post was not arrogant and disrespectful (BTW, also, whiny and preachy)?

I've never criticized anyone here first. I'm just rude in my answers towards rude people.

My first post wasn't directed against someone in particular. I was just criticizing some of what I think are bad ways.

That's only my point of view. In fact, I was expected to be opposed arguments like that someone does that way because it's convenient, comfortable, or because the teachers have told to do it that way. Then it would have been very constructive.

Nevertheless, never mind because I've found what I was looking for

 

[Shaka]

I think you are confused, full stop.

...and I really haven't anything to add, and will leave it there.

See your rudeness? Then don't expect me to be kind with you.

 

[Zoopsia59]

That's only my point of view.

Yeah... that's what we've been trying to say.
But you've been presenting it as unarguable FACT.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Could it be because a constructive discussion was not on the OP agenda to begin with?

Since he says he found what he was looking for, and it hasn't been particularly constructive, I guess you may be right.

 

[Zoopsia59]

From your 1st post:

Close embrace tango is too far difficult so please,don't overdo yourselves. I know you are pleased to hug each other while dancing but keep in mind that there are others who are watching you and it would be appreciated not to obtrude your unsightliness.

It seems to me that while this is not directed at one specific Dance Forums participant, it IS directed at anyone reading... ie: ALL DF AT forum members.

Therefore it was a slam to all of us... patronizing and insulting.

 

[Shaka]

I have written quite a few posts objectively responding to yours. I have also asked you specific and direct questions that you chose to ignore and never answered. Others have as well.

I'm just human. It's very possible I missed some of your posts and I apologize for that.

Instead you call us disabled (colorblind) and insist that the problem is that we aren't capable of understanding, as a way for you to avoid actually explaining clearly.

I've never called you color-blind people. That was just a personal feeling to illustrate that I can't explain with videos. And that's why I'm continuing with words.

You deflect, repeat and then contradict yourself. You make references to how your posts have brought to light other people's errors of technique without knowing anything about how anyone here dances or referencing whose technique needed (and gained) improvement through your posts.

Seems that you have lots of grieves against me.

You consistently refuse to give us examples of what you think is correct method, going so far as to backtrack when your example (Christina) is used as proof of other's points. Requests for you to better explain or illustrate what you mean are answered by continued references to the 2 videos already posted (changing your tune on Christina midway) and your all too frequent excuse that you can't explain to people who can't see.

I was just saying that Cristina does (the way I think it is) right with milonguero ochos. You may find elsewhere that she does not do them exactly as she did first. To what I answered that (in my opinion) nobody can do it (the way I think it is) right all times. I too often make mistakes but I'm well aware of them.

There are MANY ways in which you have not been polite, gentlemanly, clear with your explanations, or even consistent.

That's right. I'm rude towards rude people, but only rude people.

If you want to clear this all up, I suggest you start by answering the direct questions already put to you.

That's what I'm trying to do.

Or, as so many have requested, send us to a link of you demonstrating how it should be done. There's limited value in seeing how it SHOULDN"T be done, so pointing out videos that are wrong is not enough. Teachers don't show their students only the wrong way and expect them to figure out the right way through process of elimination (especially using only 1 or 2 examples). They demonstrate the right way.

I can't post links yet. So I focused on past links. Would you like me to tell you exactly where in the videos I think it's right or wrong?

I'd hate to see the result if a teacher showed students a few wrong examples without any context of the correct way for comparison and then when they still didn't get it, told them that he couldn't teach them because they were unable to see it for themselves due to some personal flaw of theirs

And as for me

If you want to teach us, you're going to have to demonstrate the right way. Its really that simple

I'm looking forward to show you (although I think I already did).

 

[dchester]

I've never criticized anyone here first. I'm just rude in my answers towards rude people.

OK, then the disconnect was in your first post. Let's just say that you didn't make a very good first impression, thus it did not cultivate any good will. Maybe you did not intend to be rude, but unfortunately you came across rather poorly from the start (and then got worse).

Nevertheless, never mind because I've found what I was looking for

What were you looking for, and why didn't you simply ask for whatever it was (in your original post)?

 

[Dave Bailey]

Blimey, I'm away for a few hours... OK, bear with me whilst I work through this lot

I suppose what I am thinking about the 'diagonal' business is that while it is quite true and obviously necessary that there is a sideways component to the track of the moving foot into a cross, the predominant direction of the foot's movement is 'back'. The sideways bit comes, mainly, from the change in rotation (and 'lift', where its been used), but that 'diagonal' (to me, anyway) means in a position moving to the side at c45 degrees to the line of dance (ie as much to the side as back), and to make such a movement requires an intention to go that way from the first movement of the foot to the weight change, whereas the follower just places her foot where it was led while walking backwards.

Yes - it's obviously not a 45% angle or anything in that case, there's simply a small diagonal component to the step when done after a back step.

On the other hand, an ocho cortado inverts this - it's mostly (or all) sideways, with little or no backwards components.

Cor, complicated stuff this Tango, innit...

 

[Dave Bailey]

Guys, too much headaches for little

Welcome to Tango.

I was only concerned about milonguero ochos. I've just said that Cristina is doing right because her dissociation is clear and occurs first prior to moving the leg.

As I understand them, milonguero ochos don't require dissociation. That seems to be the point of them, in fact, and it's the main difference between them and normal ochos.

It's been explained to you, many times, that these are different types of step. But you haven't taken that on board, so I can only think you:
- Have everyone who's explained it on ignore
- Don't understand the explanations
- Have decided not to accept them

Which is it?

Cruzada is *not* a diagonal step. It's just a cross foot replacement.

If by "diagonal" you mean a 45-degree angle, yes. I was using "diagonal" to refer to a step which has both a side and a back component - the relative proportions of each component may vary.

 

[Shaka]

OK, then the disconnect was in your first post. Let's just say that you didn't make a very good first impression, thus it did not cultivate any good will. Maybe you did not intend to be rude, but unfortunately you came across rather poorly from the start (and then got worse).

What were you looking for, and why didn't you simply ask for whatever it was (in your original post)?

We're all looking for money. Will it help if we ask directly for money? We can also ask for people's expectations and get plenty of money by fulfilling them, and it would be more effective, don't you agree?

Ok my first post was kind of rude but it was necessary. I wouldn't have found what I was looking for otherwise. We would have kindly talked about style preferences and that wouldn't have been of any help for me.

Now I understand why people don't do the way I expect them to do (see that like a personal preference). It's because they don't see the differences. Not you in particular. But everyone. Like when I was a beginner (I'm not telling that you are beginners, that's just personal feelings). I couldn't "see" weight transfers, hip actions, ball-flat feet placements and so on. Even now I have hard times with on2 salsa dancing. It requires time to assimilate. That's only when we are accustomed to things that they appear clear to us. And that's why we have to do both right and wrong (subjectively) to see (objectively).

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

.... It's because they don't see the differences. Not you in particular. But everyone.

lol.

 

[opendoor]

Diagonal. What is diagonal?

Following the didactics and the syllabus of Gustavo Naveira there is no diagonal step in tango, only the cross-step (not to mix with the cruzada).

 

[dchester]

Now I understand why people don't do the way I expect them to do (see that like a personal preference). It's because they don't see the differences. Not you in particular. But everyone. Like when I was a beginner (I'm not telling that you are beginners, that's just personal feelings). I couldn't "see" weight transfers, hip actions, ball-flat feet placements and so on. Even now I have hard times with on2 salsa dancing. It requires time to assimilate. That's only when we are accustomed to things that they appear clear to us. And that's why we have to do both right and wrong (subjectively) to see (objectively).

I'd be interested to learn how you reached that conclusion from this thread. FWIW, I am not saying you are wrong, but IMO, there are other possibilities as well. Maybe the communication/instruction/demonstration wasn't clear enough, or maybe the expectations weren't realistic.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Ok my first post was kind of rude but it was necessary.

and in another post:

Unfortunately people forget about ones wihtout personality and do remember the ones with strong (arrogant) personality.

So... you thought it necessary to be admittedly rude in your 1st post.

You go on to say that being arrogant is the way to be remembered.

But you complain that others were rude to you first and don't like the fact that I say you come across as arrogant.

 

[Zoopsia59]

deleted because... never mind