Closed embrace: thumbs up or down?

[tangomaniac]

I’m with @tangomaniac on this. I only dance in close embrace, and will try to avoid followers who don’t. I haven’t achieved the level of mastery necessary to bail out of a tanda though, so will suffer through open embrace if I’m forced to.

I don't consider it mastery. It comes down to how much pain can I tolerate. (I have arthritis.) My left shoulder is put under tremendous pressure when the woman thrusts out her right arm. I'll let go of her hand and hold her wrist or elbow - - anything to relieve the pressure. Some get upset but my shoulder is more important.

Conversely, I've seen women put under a lot of pressure with leaders who confuse domination and submission for leading and following. I'm amazed how much discomfort they are willing to tolerate to dance.

I discovered I have power in tango and learned how to use it to terminate tandas. Women have power in tango, also. Most don't know they have it, some know they have it but don't know how to use it and very few know they have power and know how to use it.

No explanation is necessary to terminate. "Thank you" is all you have to say.

 

[SierraAlpha]

No explanation is necessary to terminate. "Thank you" is all you have to say.

That's technically true. At the same time, we are humans and don't like to deal out harsh rejections (and 'thank you' with no other words spoken is exactly that).

The last couple times you had to end a tanda, how did you do that? I'm asking for my own education, hoping to learn something that might spare me and my future 'mistake' partners unnecessary unpleasantness.

 

[tangomaniac]

That's technically true. At the same time, we are humans and don't like to deal out harsh rejections (and 'thank you' with no other words spoken is exactly that).

The last couple times you had to end a tanda, how did you do that? I'm asking for my own education, hoping to learn something that might spare me and my future 'mistake' partners unnecessary unpleasantness.

The famous tango teacher, Daniel Trenner, said "There is no security in tango." You have to be prepared for the unexpected. Women have terminated tandas, which saved me from terminating them.

I don't consider saying "Thank you" harsh. I once told a woman the truth she was pushing on my arm and she denied it. (Reminds of the movie "A Few Good Men" in the climatic scene where Jack Nicholson says, "You can't handle the truth.") Continuing the discussion would have led to drama on the floor. Now, I say "I don't think our dance styles are compatible. Thank you."

Sometimes, a woman rebels when I terminate the tanda. One said, "The tanda isn't over." I said, "It's over for me."

Nobody has to explain their actions, e.g. why they aren't asked to dance, why invitations are declined, why tandas are terminated.

I've been a dance host on cruise ships where I had to take a lot of complaints. When I pay MY admission at a milonga, I don't have to take any.

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

Like tangomaniac I also dance only in close embrace. I feel it's difficult for me to lead with my arms and I don't enjoy it.
If a lady indicates to me that she doesn't want a close embrace, I apologize and excuse myself. I explain to her that I only dance in CE for the reasons above. It's her right to dance the way she wants, it's my right to dance with whomever I want. I am never rude, but always clear.

 

[Mladenac]

That's technically true. At the same time, we are humans and don't like to deal out harsh rejections (and 'thank you' with no other words spoken is exactly that).

The last couple times you had to end a tanda, how did you do that? I'm asking for my own education, hoping to learn something that might spare me and my future 'mistake' partners unnecessary unpleasantness.

"Thank you" leads to introspective thinking which helps in your tango development.

Progress is a painful prices because we need to lose what is known to emerge into the unknown

 

[opendoor]

....dance only in close embrace. I feel it's difficult for me to lead with my arms..

It would be wrong technique if someone would lead with his arms in open embrace !
Its rather the other way round: "..you should lead with any part of your body" in close embrace, said El Turco Brahemcha, grand-master of the early VU style.

 

[Rabbit]

I've never actually ended a tanda partway for reasons other than injury. If a follower's technique is bad enough to hurt me, I probably didn't invite/accept the dance in the first place. A few times, I retreated to very loose open hold in order to prevent a follower pulling and pushing me around.

Sometimes I find the dance boring due to mediocre connection, but in order to not be rude I'll just autopilot it out

 

[opendoor]

..If a follower's technique is bad enough to hurt me, I probably didn't invite..

If a follower should hurt me, I would warn her to change the technique, otherwise I would quit the dance at once. And that sentence actually has never failed to have its effect. Most followers actually were able to adapt then. The most common answer was: thank you so much, I didn't know, nobody told me before. Of course, I have heard many times not to give advice on the pista. What a crap! Masochism and tango are not compatible. We are grown up and no longer dance in the playground.

 

[Rabbit]

If a follower should hurt me, I would warn her to change the technique, otherwise I would quit the dance at once. And that sentence actually has never failed to have its effect. Most followers actually were able to adapt then. The most common answer was: thank you so much, I didn't know, nobody told me before. Of course, I have heard many times not to give advice on the pista. What a crap! Masochism and tango are not compatible. We are grown up and no longer dance in the playground.

Oh yeah, I've never experienced anyone having a problem with, say, polite requests to move their embracing arm. I don't have a problem either if someone asks me. Small things that can be fixed easily don't count as "teaching on the dance floor"

 

[tangomaniac]

					If a follower should hurt me, I would warn her to change the technique, otherwise I would quit the dance at once. And that sentence actually has never failed to have its effect. Most followers actually were able to adapt then. The most common answer was: thank you so much, I didn't know, nobody told me before. Of course, I have heard many times not to give advice on the pista. What a crap! Masochism and tango are not compatible. We are grown up and no longer dance in the playground. Warn is a very strong word. I don't know any women who deal well with warnings. On rare occasions, a woman may ask for details. Most women rebel at anything that smacks of criticism of their dancing. Whenever I said they were pushing on my arm, they always deny it because they don't have body awareness. That's when I decided to stop explaining.

 

[opendoor]

..don't know any women who deal well with warnings.. Most women rebel at anything that smacks of criticism.. they always deny..

I do not now, why it always worked out well for me. Perhaps, when I got cabeceoed, I always excuse myself before hand, that I had 5 knee and one shoulder surgeries. Perhaps it immediately starts compassion and cooperation. May be I conjure up that helper-syndrome, maniac?

 

[dchester]

It's interesting seeing an old thread getting bumped, and how they change. Close embrace is my preference, but I will dance the tanda in open embrace (the oxymoron), if the women doesn't want close embrace. I'll also add that for me, some songs I really only want to dance close, while with some other songs I can go either way. I do tend to ask different people, depending on how the music inspires me. I've only "Thank you'd" a woman one time, and it had more to do with rudeness, than how she liked to embrace.