Closer embrace = free floating hand

[Tango Distance]

At my first Tango lesson followers were fairly far way, making for a big gap, by holding my arm near the elbow as the instructor said to do. I then did a few lessons with only my wife as partner, and then she wanted to go back to switching partners again when more males were imported into the class from more advanced classes, equalizing the male/female ratio.

The ladies in the class have now switched to holding my shoulder, not sure what caused that migration. This narrows the gap. I have really long arms, so this tends to make my hand float away from her shoulder blade and just kind of flap in the breeze.

Should I grab a follower's hand and move it to where I think best? Should I drop my hand down her back until contact is made? Any other suggestions? Should I say something? Thanks for the help. BTW, as you might guess if you read my thread " Not touchy feely " I'm not looking to close the gap (close embrace)! Open embrace and switching partners in class are the goals for now.

I didn't see how it was negotiated at the one Milonga I have attended, how does one indicate wanting an open embrace vs. a closed embrace?

 

[Mladenac]

I don't understand "holding your shoulder".

If a follower is raising here left arm she is inviting you to close embrace.
If you are keep elbow to your body that you are showing you want open embrace.

 

[twnkltoz]

Good for you for switching partners even though you're uncomfortable with it! Try telling them you're more comfortable staying in open embrace for now.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Should I grab a follower's hand and move it to where I think best?

No. I HATE it when women do that to me.
By all means address the situation verbally rather than grabbing.

I'd say your arm should be nearly horizontal across the woman's back. If your arm is long enough, your fingers can extend around her torso.
An alternative would be elbow down, wrist up towards her shoulder blade.

There is no one size fits all in AT, it seems; which is ok with me.
Go for a "comfortable embrace" for both you and your partner.

 

[Tango Distance]

I don't understand "holding your shoulder". ...

Her left hand on my right shoulder, her arm close to being straight and going upwards at a pretty steep angle. I am pretty tall, about 40 cm taller than several of the ladies in the class.

No. I HATE it when women do that to me.
By all means address the situation verbally rather than grabbing. ...

Good for you for switching partners even though you're uncomfortable with it! Try telling them you're more comfortable staying in open embrace for now.

Many thanks, this is the kind of feedback this newb needs to know!

BTW I discovered something really neat on these forums, you can be in the midst of editing a reply, and click reply on another post. It will quote that message in the message currently being edited.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Somewhere women get the idea that they are supposed to dance partner dances with their left hand on the man's shoulder like every picture of uncomfortable kids at the grade school "dance". For some (also inexplicable) reason, teachers often don't talk about the placement of the follower's left hand (and how to choose it) before the habit gets ingrained.

I don't know ANY leader who wants downward pressure on his right shoulder and yet that's often what results from the follower placing her hand on the top of his shoulder. (or, incidentally, her elbow in a close embrace). When I have led in a class or at an event, I am frequently asking followers to place their hand somewhere other than the top of my shoulder. I'm baffled that so many default to this when not in close embrace. If nothing else, it's actually rather difficult to feel the lead that way!

Beyond this, I've also seen a fair number of tango followers feel that because there is some "correct" place for the follower's left hand and arm, that they will try to put it there regardless of the height difference. I can't tell you the number of followers I suggested alternate positions for (when they are dancing with much taller leaders) only to have them say "My teacher told me it's supposed to be like 'this'".

Anyway, I suggest that you tell them that you want to stick with open embrace for now and suggest that they place their hand on the front of your bicep (as I mentioned in your other thread) Then they can feel your movement much better without "hanging on" to you. It will also result in them probably being further away.

 

[TomTango]

In open embrace, the most common places for the follow to put her left hand is either on your back or the place where your bicep meets your shoulder. The more important thing, though, is for both of your arms on the closed side of the embrace to be relaxed, with her arm laying on yours. Instructors usually say to get as much contact along those arms as possible, although with a big arm length difference there'll be gaps. Maybe the elbow hold was a practice embrace, and now the instructor has stepped you up to a more normal open embrace with the follow's hand nearer your shoulder than your elbow.

Your right hand should be on her left shoulder blade. As you saw, this can't be done with your arm straight (makes your hand "hover"), so you need to bend and drop your elbow until you make contact. If you have long arms, and she's close, you might need to get a pretty acute bend in your elbow for this.

 

[Mladenac]

Her left hand on my right shoulder, her arm close to being straight and going upwards at a pretty steep angle. I am pretty tall, about 40 cm taller than several of the ladies in the class.

Now I understand. Because she can hold your right or your left shoulder.

The problem here is that she holds you inappropriately for open embrace.
She is inclining for the close embrace but you showed you want open.

Well, some schools teach holding for the shoulder which in my opinion and as I was taught bad.

The best place if you are going forward it to put her hand at your biceps, and her thumb a little below your armpit,
so she can feel your pushing energy.
And if you are going backwards she should hold your triceps, so she feel your pull energy.
In both positions it very unlikely that her hand will slide off your biceps/triceps.
And you will have good feeling how she holds you.

 

[Tango Distance]

Many thanks for the replies. My instructors demonstrated like Zoop*, TT, and Mlad* described (funny how you don't notice things that you have been "seeing" for weeks until you start paying closer attention).

 

[jantango]

Open embrace and switching partners in class are the goals for now.

Then learning to feeling tango with a partner is way down the road for you. It will take longer to dance with your arms while concentrating on tricky footwork.


I didn't see how it was negotiated at the one Milonga I have attended, how does one indicate wanting an open embrace vs. a closed embrace?

The woman has that option. When you invite a woman to dance, she embraces the way she wants to dance with you. You either accept it or don't dance.

 

[twnkltoz]

I didn't see how it was negotiated at the one Milonga I have attended, how does one indicate wanting an open embrace vs. a closed embrace?

The woman has that option. When you invite a woman to dance, she embraces the way she wants to dance with you. You either accept it or don't dance.

In BsAs, perhaps. Most places, if she wants to dance closer than you do, you can politely ask to stay in open embrace. Then she can choose to opt out if she can't accept that.

Gotta love arbitrarily following tradition...

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

That reminded me of an anecdote. When I first came to Buenos Aires several local men I was dancing with asked me questions about how was Tango danced where I lived, whether it was different in any way.... I replied to one guy that back here "some men have a hard time embracing a female stranger, they are afraid or do not want to get close to her". I remember his laugh to these days! Methinks he did not believe me; he assumed I was making a joke.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Please don't lean on me. You should maintain your own axis.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Tango Distance, I wish to add, although there is a lot ahead, please keep on. Remember that absolutely everyone, regardless of their cultural and professional background, had to undergo significant personal changes in order to dance Tango. There is simply no other way if one wishes to be a dancer and a milonguero. I have been dancing for a few years now, and still become aware of yet new challenges to overcome on a regular basis.

 

[jantango]

In BsAs, perhaps. Most places, if she wants to dance closer than you do, you can politely ask to stay in open embrace. Then she can choose to opt out if she can't accept that.

Gotta love arbitrarily following tradition...

When there is space between two partners, they don't have an embrace.

The tradition of the woman determining the space is long-standing in ballroom dancing.