Competing (and hello)

H

Hayley

New Member
Hello all!
Well what a lovely bunch of people you all seem to be!
I feel slightly fraudulent posting on this forum as I'm not really a ballroom or latin american dancer, but I am in great need of some advice from those of you who are.

To cut a very, very, very long story short - I'm just finishing a degree in journalism and have to write an investigative piece on something I believe should be advertised and promoted more to the general public.
As a ballet dancer (not prof. I just dabble), I felt it would be cheating to use ballet and so I've focused on latin american dancing (and a little of ballroom). It's almost complete but am missing one detail (which for some reason seems important to my lecturer :x ) which I can't find anywhere.

So for those of you who have been patient enough to read the above drivel, my question is this:

How does someone who has reached an average standard of latin american dancing (but has done NO grades and has never ever competed AND is over the age of 20 (my target audience)) become a professional latin american dancer?
I should probably mention that I'm in the UK and other than what I've learnt in doing this dissertation know nothing about latin so please be gentle with the dance terminology.
ANY INFORMATION WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Many thanks! :D
Hayley
 
Welcome Hayley :)

In answer to your question (and this is more my own opinion ) someone over the age of 20 without any previous competitve experience has very little chance if any at all to become a professional latin dancer. Most of the professionals have been dancing since they were 5,6,7 etc and have competed through all grades, eventually moving into open amatuer where the age is usually 17-25's before turning professional.
Someone who has only begun dancing in there 20's (or even late teens) is already past the competing age of the highest level dancers outside Pro.

Although, I think in different countries there are differences in the term "professional". Im speaking from an Australian point here, where Professional means that you dance in the professional divisions of dancesport (the collective term for competitive latin and standard/ballroom dancing). It has no bearing on wether you teach or not.

I hope to have helped a little without confusing you!
 
Hello shydancer,
Thanks for the reply. :D

Maybe it would help if I specify exactly what my lecturer says is missing as I don't think I've been very clear in my original post (sorry).

Let's say a female of twenty(ish) is a superb dancer (a natural one might say who has danced from childhood but chose not to do any exams) but has no grades and no competitions under her belt BUT wants to turn pro. Is it at all possible for her to achieve this? Would she go thrpough the open competition route (assuming latin has these)? Would it never be possible in a million years for some reason?

I realise that all sounds both terribly specific and yet incredibly vague lol :roll: , but the criteria which this information would help me out with requires me to look at how grades/ qualifications, time and age affect the professional side of things.

Perhaps I could give an example.
I teach horse riding - if a student, aged 20 came to me having never competed once in her life, having no JA points (the equivilant almost of your grades) but with quite a talent and sturdy background in riding wanted to (example) ride at the olympics, it would be quite fair to say "no chance!"
But, in theory - though it is practically (almost completely) unheard of, she could aquire these points by entering open comps where she'd ride against amateurs about to turn prof and potentially (though unlikely) achieve her goal.
All very far fetched, but true and feasable none-the-less.
It is this information which my lecturer keeps insisting upon - She just keeps sayng "never mind unlikely or near impossible - journalists have to deal with the facts!" :twisted:
So if anyone could offer any help, again I'd be so very greatful.

Many thanks
Hayley
 
Hi Hayley!! :D Welcome.

No, your question doesn't sound vague to me. And it's a good question which a lot of people here have asked. A lot of people, especially in the United States, get exposed to ballroom dance at a later age than, say for example, ballet.

So, let me ask you a few questions. (Ha! Turnabout is fair play! :tongue: :wink:)

You say both Latin American and ballroom. Not to be a stickler, but to some people, those are different things, and dancers sometimes have a different "shelf life" depending on the discipline. So, just for clarification, I'm going to assume that you mean the hot and spicy dances (like samba and cha cha) that you sometimes see on TV, where the girls wear minute costumes. (This as opposed to smooth or standard dances like waltz, where the girls wear beautiful, floating ballgowns.) Please correct me if I'm assuming the wrong thing.

And second, when you say professional, what do you mean? Do you mean professional, as in getting paid for dancing or teaching dance? Or do you mean dancing competitively? Or do you mean being a ranked contender, on a national or international basis? Or other? Again, as picky as it sounds, all three options and others could be considered professional, and the answer, IMHO, is different for each one.

And, one more question, just for the sake of being an ornery old cuss. :roll: :wink: When you say the person hasn't taken dance exams, do you mean that they have dance experience, but have never had certification, or that they've never studied dance?

Hmm. Sorry to be such a pain. :oops: Unfortunately, the answer isn't all that straightforward. Your professor has a point.
 
20 is probably pushing it for starting as a latin dancer, at least to get to the top, but it's still possibly to make some respectable accomplishments - and more so in the "standard" or "modern" half of ballroom dancing than in the latin half.

One thing that is important to know about ballroom is that ulitmately there are few formal requirements; in some localities there may be a formal structure you have to climb, but the competition generally recognized as being most presitigious - the British Open at Blackpool - is in fact open to anyone who is not specifically inelgible for a particular category.

If someone could really train efficiently from day one in a direction that is viable for the longer term, and gain experience without getting sidetracked into areas of little lasting importance, then they can in fact accomplish a high level of dancing in a small fraction of the usual training time. But making the arrangements to pursue such a course could be difficult - as a guess, the most frequent situation for it to actually happen would be girlfriend, then partner of someone who is already there. Or possibly, student turned partner.
 
paegmalion,
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply (and the same goes for you too Chris :wink: ).
In answer to your questions,

By latin american (I apologise for the confusion - I'm a ballet girl myself so my terminology in Latin is embarrasingly ridiculous!), I mean dances such as the cha cha cha, rumba etc (NOT the ones in the 'floaty gowns' as you put it).

Secondly, by professional I DO NOT mean teaching (I've already covered that in a different criteria so there's no need for me to go into it again).
By professional I mean on a national/ international basis, ranked contender (everything you said in that area basically) - as in Camilla Dalerup, Brendan Cole, Ian Waite etc (they seem to be names internet searches keep popping up with so I'm assuming they're fairly big.

Finally,
(God you're patient! - even I'm getting frustrated with myself for not being specific enough!)
Yes - I mean that the "case study" has had latin lessons since being young, is skilled at her dancing, is twenty(ish) BUT has taken NO exams and never entered any comps.

And as previously stated - the lecturer from hell is not interested in "unlikely or virtually impossible" (I've pretty much gathered that for myself from common sense) - just if it is theoretically attainable (I refer back to my horse-riding example in my second post (third post down I think)).


And you are not an ornery cuss! Your knowledge is greatly appreciated as is anyone elses! :D

Thanks again!
Hayley
 
Hayley said:
Yes - I mean that the "case study" has had latin lessons since being young, is skilled at her dancing, is twenty(ish) BUT has taken NO exams and never entered any comps.
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This is a rather unlikely situation!

First off, exams are not a major part of ballroom dancing, so forget that.

But it would extremely unlikley for someone to study dancing of this sort since childhood and to be skilled at it, without ever having competed.

Certainly it is possible for a skilled but relatively unknown dancer to enter onto the world stage in a few years - it's building the skill that takes time. If that is somehow independently present then working up through the ranks doesn't take very long, provided a suitable partner can be found.
 
Hayley said:
By professional I mean on a national/ international basis, ranked contender (everything you said in that area basically) - as in Camilla Dalerup, Brendan Cole, Ian Waite etc (they seem to be names internet searches keep popping up with so I'm assuming they're fairly big.

Hayley
Click to expand...

Well, anything IS possible. But, since you are from the ballet world, how possible is it for someone with no formal experience and training to become a professional ballet dancer? Slim to none.

Success in Latin Championship dancing means more than being 'a good dancer' - there are tons of 'good dancers' in Salsa clubs, for instance, but they are in no way prepared to earn a living from dancing Latin.

Obvious things needed to turn pro: knowledge of the technique, experience (in competing as well as performing), backing (lots of money needed), a partner with all of these things, and the indefinable - charismatic dance ability.

Usually, someone who does not compete is not considered very serious in this world. Also, the hours to put in for a dancer are much more than the average 'pro-am' or 'social' dancer are willing to give. Interest and raw talent do not make up for training and focus. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that the noncompeting follower that has never done syllabus or ever competed has enough 'floor time' to be competitive. Think about what a first year ballet student looks like... that's what you get.
 
Many thanks to everyone who has replied - I would just like to remind you all that the situation is completely fictional and was used in order to demonstrate the type of answer which was needed (I get the impression I've been taken a little too seriously lol).

Saludas - yes I understand your point completely - but I would say the chances of a similar situation in the ballet world are more than slim to none. I have many friends who have taken ballet since the age of 4/5 but for various reasons did not take exams - merely progressed for the sake of progressing and they are of the same standard as those who have the grades under their belt.

So I gather from this that whilst it is extremely, highly, in all probability unlikely (which, naurally common sense dictates) - there are no specific "rules" which prevent the situation from happening.

Many thanks to you all! :D

Hayley
 
Hayley said:
And as previously stated - the lecturer from hell is not interested in "unlikely or virtually impossible" (I've pretty much gathered that for myself from common sense) - just if it is theoretically attainable (I refer back to my horse-riding example in my second post (third post down I think)).
Click to expand...
Sorry I don't have time to give you a more complete response Hayley but yes, as improbable as this would be it is not impposible. Someone could, for instance just have had very bad luck finding a partner and, as a result, not have competed for instance. Yes, this IS unlikely over such a long time, but you said hypothetical, right? More to the point, however, the Reigning Professional World Latin Champion, Carmen, started her Latin dancing at age 17. This is obviously the exception rather than the rule, but if she could become a world champion starting at age 17 than certainly another gifted dancer could make it "just" as a pro starting at age 20.

Hope that helps.
 
Hayley,

all the comments from others concerned the feasibility of becoming a top latin competitor not having competed before the age of 20, which I agree is near impossible (Carmen being the obvious counterexample).

In terms of rules, there are absolutely none in that respect. You and a friend can give the folks at blackpool a ring and enter the professional competition at Blackpool next year (dancesport equivalent of "Wimbledon") and if you are absolutely stunning you'll do well.

There are some exceptions to this, such as the world championships, which only allow a certain number of couples from each country (2?) so you need to qualify for them.

Does that answer your question?
 
lol - OK, FOR THE THIRD TIME lol - I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT I myself would like to compete professionally in latin.

The completely hypothetical situation I used was to acquire the answer to a question I was struggling with regarding my journalism degree dissertation. The criteria I had to answer was regarding how "age, proficiency level, time and status affected the potential levels one could reach in my chosen subject."
Although my original essay pushed the point that it would be highly, extrememly, ridiculously unlikely - my lecturer informed me that I must still provide a factual answer - however unlikely 'one in a million' it was.
That is exactly what you have all helped me to do.

Lol! I keep reading the replys and thinking "Noooooooooo! lol, how the hell have I managed to make them think this ridiculous situation is not only real but one I'm considering?! lol" :shock: :o

I assure you all, I am deeply thankful for your replys (they have all helped immensley) and I take you art form very seriously - I would never be so arrogant as to assume it was easy enough to achieve a high standard so quickly and I hope that for those who have obviously thought the situation was real, they have not been offended by that.
Offence was (I assure you) never my intention. :D

Many thanks to all of you!

Hayley
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Nope. I caught the research aspect of it. 8)

Glad we could be of help, however frenetically dance-addicted we all are. :oops: :lol: :lol: Good luck with your dissertation. :D
 
Just a further quick thought (sorry - yes I am terribly unorganised :roll: !).

How do professional dancers get paid and what is their pay amount like?
(and by prof I refer back to the definition we have already established I mean).

I don't actually need to know but I'd be very interested to find out.

Anyone?

Hayley
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