Competition category confusion #!@%*

B

bscholz

New Member
I'm sure this has been answered already, but I haven't yet found what I am looking for.

Here is the situation. My partner and I are amateur bronze/silver level standard dancers and we are planning to compete in the NDCA-sponsored Atlanta open next month. Naturally, we want to dance as many dances as we can. Our choices on the amateur entry form are:

NOVICE STANDARD (W/QS) -- 2 dances
PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP STANDARD (W/T/QS) - three
OPEN AMATEUR STANDARD (W/T/VW/F/QS) -- all five!

There is also a Student-Student Category in the Pro-Am registration that looks like it would let us dance all the dances, but I'm not sure what that's about.

From the options available, it appears that only the open amateur category would allow us to dance all our dances. But if this is a proficiency level, I am afraid that we will be up against competitors that will be far ahead of us.

Does anyone know of a way we can dance more dances than W/Q, but still compete with others at our level? I don't see any single-dance registration choices.
 
If you are bronze/silver level you don't want to dance Novice generally. I think you need to be looking at the Pro-Am and Student-Student form -- that's where you'll be able to sign up for single dances.
 
The bronze and silver am/am couples I know of usually compete in the same heats as pro-am in separate events, and the entry forms I've seen have those levels on those forms.
 
Thank you all for your insights and responses. You have clarified the situation and saved us from an embarassing faux pas. So, we will sign up for the student-student events in Atlanta. But it makes me wonder why there are separate categories for amateur and student-student. What's the difference? Aren't amateurs, by definintion, two students?

And a big wave hello to you, too, Larinda. We were really blown away watching you and Ryan at the TriState. Believe it or not, it's the first time we saw you compete!
 
If I'm looking at the right amateur entry form, there's also PRE-NOVICE STANDARD (W/QS) (restricted to syllabus figures). If you want to compete against other couples, I think you should enter that and then make up the remaining dances in student/student. Last year's pre-novice standard had three couples. Your student/student events will probably be uncontested.

Differences between amateur and student/student:
-amateur has fewer age/proficiency categories; student/student uses the same age/proficiency categories as pro/am
-amateur requires an annual NDCA amateur membership fee of $35

Amateur events tend to be more contested than student/student. For example, you might have 3 couples entering student/student:
1 couple in Intermediate Bronze Adult A1
1 couple in Intermediate Bronze Adult A2
1 couple in Full Bronze Adult A2

So all three couples would be dancing uncontested. But they would all dance together if entering Pre-Novice.

You can read more here
Student/Student vs. Am/Am

Oddly, I can't find entry fees on the pro-am/student-student entry form...

All the best at Atlanta Open! :)
 
Terpsichorean Clod said:
Oddly, I can't find entry fees on the pro-am/student-student entry form...
Click to expand...

Usually in pro-am they do not list entry fees on the forms. You normally obtain them by emailing the organizers. Some studios or pros that package their services may not wish transparency in the detail of the break out of the fees.
 
Adding to the confusion, DH and I are an am/am bronze couple, and more than once we have entered a Novice two-dance am/am event at an NDCA comp and been competing, at most, against another bronze couple from our studio and maybe a silver am/am couple or two. You may want to call the organizers and see how they are using the terms.
 
I am still learning about the different levels and what you can dance, each comp is run differently and offers another verison i.e masters 2 (over 50) masters 1 (35+) then you can dance up one in each category and some comps run just Masters 1 only and masters 2 for Level 3 and over, it gets very confusing if you dont know much about the system :-)
 
People, it's an NDCA comp--"Novice" refers to syllabus.

Clue #1: It's a 2-dance event. Novice under USA Dance rules is a 3-dance.
Clue #2: Prechamp is listed a 3-dance event (a dead giveaway that it's an NDCA comp) and USA Dance Prechamp is a 4-dance.

When NDCA comps offer Open Novice, they typically follow the USA Dance dance selections for Novice and Prechamp.
 
I couldn't find the pricing either! It took a call to the organizer to finally understand it. I think the registration forms could be whole lot clearer and simpler.
 
bscholz said:
I couldn't find the pricing either! It took a call to the organizer to finally understand it. I think the registration forms could be whole lot clearer and simpler.
Click to expand...

Though I have not looked at these particular registration materials, this is one of my chief complaints.

In my opinion, comp organizers should always provide all the price information on the website, and it should be placed where you can find it. (ON the entry form is one great option!) Two reasons:

1) If you are an amateur and entering YOURSELF, it is inefficient to have to call/email the comp or ask your instructor for pricing information. For a larger comp, if you don't put this information on the form, you could wind up getting hundreds of phone calls. Yes, each phone call may take (on average) only 60 seconds, but that means each one hundred phone calls occupy an 1 hour and 40 minutes of an employee's time. (And of course, it takes the competitor time too.)

2) If you are pro-am, hopefully you recognize that your instructor is going to charge you to dance, and deservedly so. There's no reason for the competition's base price to be a state secret. Put it out there!


There are probably half a dozen comps in the USA whose share of the business is virtually guaranteed. If you are a small to mid-sized comp in competition with other small to mid-sized comps, though, I suggest that a user-friendly display of information may help gain customers/competitors.

I know it is a plus factor for me.
 
Joe said:
When NDCA comps offer Open Novice, they typically follow the USA Dance dance selections for Novice and Prechamp.
Click to expand...
In your part of the US. In California, the closed-syllabus Amateur multi-dance events are called either "Closed Syllabus" or more commonly "Pre-Novice," and are very often run as two two-dance events -- a W/Q and a T/F. After that, there are "Novice" events, which are also very commonly run as two two-dance events (W/Q and T/F) and have no syllabus or costuming restrictions. We don't have such a thing as a closed syllabus Novice event out here.
 
But the two-dances are still syllabus events, aren't they? Does NDCA often offer three- or four-dance syllabus events?
 
Joe said:
But the two-dances are still syllabus events, aren't they? Does NDCA often offer three- or four-dance syllabus events?
Click to expand...
On my coast --
There are two-dance events that are closed syllabus that are called Pre-Novice.
There are two-dance events that are open that are called Novice.
Some comps do Novice as a three-dance event, some do it as two two-dance events.
I have seen Pre-Champ events at NDCA competitions that were only three dances.
I have not seen any three or four dance Syllabus events at NDCA competitions.
 
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