Competitive Dancing: Has "Presentation" been sacrificed for power and speed?

[danceronice]

It's hard to focus on interpretation when you may end up with music you're at best indifferent to and at worst are like "Oh, my God, what is this ****?" when it comes on. I am constantly sitting there thinking "Please let me get a song I like." If it's not, then I just have to dance to the beat and try to ignore the rest of it. One reason skating may still manage to look more 'artistic' is remember, you CHOOSE your music and dance the same routine to the same edit the whole season (unless there's something wrong and you have to retool it, but that's only when you have a problem to fix.) You kind of have to fake it and do it from memory when there's a better than average chance you're not actually going to like what you're dancing to.

 

[IndyLady]

I would like to see those dancers dancing some kind of J&J with random partner like it's usual in WCS

OMG, I was saying this exact same thing to someone the other night as we were talking about competitions (fellow ballroom students but I think they have a background/side interest in lindy hop). I remember how disillusioned I was when I discovered that choreo was the norm for ballroom competitions - when I did my first one I expected that we would just dance like we did at the open dance party, which we mostly did, and I remember feeling eye-roll-y about one of my fellow competitors whose choreo looked way more like a Showcase than any type of actual partner dancing. Ha ha, silly me.

 

[IngaSv]

I think there are a lot of people who do sacrifice actual "dancing" for speed, power and flexibility, but usually those dancers are not the winners.

 

[Spookisgirl]

I think it really depends whether you are watching a WDC or WDSF competition. I have a hard time watching WDSF as I come from a music background, and I don't often find much musicality (there are some exceptions), and sometimes I find myself questioning the connection between the partners (I have seen some examples where it is hard to tell who is dancing with who in latin). It just seems that 'sportmanship' and tricks are more and more trumping 'artistry' and actual partnered dancing. This is more in latin than standard. I find WDC comps better, but even there speed and power seem to be starting to trump presentation.

I don't mind spins and tricks--but they should enhance, not detract from the dancing. The dance (especially rumba--and I have seen it) should not be random pauses between multiple spins and flashy tricks.

Just what I have observed, so I guess I would say I agree with the quote.

 

[opendoor]

...breeding a new generation of sports people who are far more capable than those of 1920s and 1930s

I believe you miss Peter Eggleston's fundamental point. The issue is whether dancing is a sport or art..

There are by far more competitive events than artistical or social. What is the reason? The last (non-competitive) ballroom festival in my hometown said good bye in 2011. Interest in proms, balls, workshops, matinees, master classes, performances and so on simply had declined. Who is to blame, social dancers, cometitive dancers, teachers, organizers, coaches? Ballroom once had 2-3 pillars, why did the artistical and social did wither away? Seems Vienna is a last rampart of the lost pillars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_balls_in_Vienna

 

[Partner Dancer]

There are by far more competitive events than artistical or social. What is the reason? The last (non-competitive) ballroom festival in my hometown said good bye in 2011. Interest in proms, balls, workshops, matinees, master classes, performances and so on simply had declined. Who is to blame, social dancers, cometitive dancers, teachers, organizers, coaches? Ballroom once had 2-3 pillars, why did the artistical and social did wither away? Seems Vienna is a last rampart of the lost pillars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_balls_in_Vienna

A significant part is economics. Ballroom events simply cost too much, primarily for the venue (hotel) and staff. Competitive dancers are the last bastion who still deem the cost verses reward worthwhile, but even that is whittling away (just look at the MAC). Decades ago, many events had to be sponsored by some wealthy benefactors, who donated tens of thousands to make up for the shortages, but it's not clear that's happening much any more (partially because organizers are probably more greedy nowadays).

Since the spiraling down of the economy is unlikely to change any time soon, don't expect dance events to trend oppositely on the average.

 

[Mengu]

There are by far more competitive events than artistical or social.

What is this observation based on? Locally, almost every studio (12'ish I know of) has one or two showcase events a year, which I would consider both artistic and social events with participating amateurs and professionals. There is typically no competition at these events. And if there is any judging it is merely in the form of constructive feedback to help amateur dancers improve. And there are always breaks for social dancing. Every studio has at least one weekly social dance night, some have up to three. There are monthly social black tie events organized by at least two different clubs. There are a number of swing clubs with regular weekly and monthly events, but I'm not too familiar with the WCS/salsa/AT scenes. There are cotillions (as I know instructors teaching groups of teenagers for cotillions), though I'm not sure how many. And when I look at how many local competitions we have, there are about 6 local ballroom comps a year (that I know of), which is a minuscule number compared to the hundreds of non-competitive events.

 

[cornutt]

Ballroom events simply cost too much, primarily for the venue (hotel) and staff. Competitive dancers are the last bastion who still deem the cost verses reward worthwhile...

Kind of strange, though, considering that of the three, competitive dancing is by far the most expensive. Is it just that people are not aware that the other two kinds exist? Or are they not regarded as enough of a challenge?

 

[IndyLady]

Kind of strange, though, considering that of the three, competitive dancing is by far the most expensive. Is it just that people are not aware that the other two kinds exist? Or are they not regarded as enough of a challenge?

For many people, it's the sticker shock of private lesson cost, before you even get to what it would cost to compete. Especially once you get past the introductory offer.

Yes, there are ways to do it for less (group classes, etc) as has been brought up numerous times on this board, but I've always been at the type of studio where you pretty much have to be taking private lessons to be a student - they don't generally permit a la carte groups or parties. So I've had a lot of these "omg it's so expensive" discussions from people, many of whom don't last because it's just not in the budget.

 

[snapdancer]

Yes, there are ways to do it for less (group classes, etc) as has been brought up numerous times on this board, .....

If we're still on the topic of competitive dancing, group classes alone will not make you a competitive dancer. Actually, that won't make you a good social dancer either.

In my experience, the technique needed to dance properly is not presented in a group class. There's an inherent difficulty in teaching technique to large groups, but I think the actual reasons are:
(1) Most people off the street think dance skill is defined by how many patterns you can stumble through, quantity Vs quality
(2) Have to leave material for the private lessons.
I was dancing with this lady, at the end she complained that in trying to maintain her frame, her arms hurt. I told her to use her lats instead of her arm muscles. Oh, that was wonderful, so much easier. Wonder why the teacher who mentioned that in the group class didn't explain the use of lats when she complained about her arms later. I replied that this was part of the secret sauce that you don't get unless you take private lessons.

 

[IndyLady]

If we're still on the topic of competitive dancing, group classes alone will not make you a competitive dancer. Actually, that won't make you a good social dancer either.

In my experience, the technique needed to dance properly is not presented in a group class. There's an inherent difficulty in teaching technique to large groups, but I think the actual reasons are:
(1) Most people off the street think dance skill is defined by how many patterns you can stumble through, quantity Vs quality
(2) Have to leave material for the private lessons.
I was dancing with this lady, at the end she complained that in trying to maintain her frame, her arms hurt. I told her to use her lats instead of her arm muscles. Oh, that was wonderful, so much easier. Wonder why the teacher who mentioned that in the group class didn't explain the use of lats when she complained about her arms later. I replied that this was part of the secret sauce that you don't get unless you take private lessons.

I completely agree that privates are necessary to be a good dancer, either socially or competitively. I was merely pre-empting the "but group classes" (etc) arguments that the training itself is not that pricey. IME, and the perception of many I talk to, it is.

 

[tangotime]

In my experience, the technique needed to dance properly is not presented in a group class. There's an inherent difficulty in teaching technique to large groups,

UK "class " work, by and large, are "book " technique, which is medal test level . The social style , compared to the States,is quite lacking in variety and low emphasis on techn.
If I taught the medal test level to my students , the majority would have quit long ago .Major cities/large towns, cater more to the medal test, with social being virtually ignored in many schools .Many schools teach childrens classes, with competitions thruout the year , and from that source, they build a client base .

 

[snapdancer]

Wondering if there's a way to introduce a bit more technique to the unwashed masses who show up at social group classes without driving them off. But maybe some are happy and prefer stumbling through patterns indefinitely.