Comprehensive clear guide to invitations in the milonga:

[Steve Pastor]

I went to a musicality workshop before going, and they showed different ways of interpreting the tango rhythm.

Mind telling us which city this was in?

So I mostly used what I had just learned along with So I mostly used what I had just learned along with syncopated footwork

Well, let's see if we have a "syncopated footwork" tangent!
Guess what everyone? There IS syncopation in tango music. So surely, there would be in our movements.

Always bear in mind that the AT tanda makes the price of dancing with beginners pretty high. No beginner should be surprised when a more experienced and accomplished dancer excuses themselves after one or two songs. If I had done this more often, perserving my own sanity over not making someone "fell bad", maybe I would still be going to milongas on a routine basis.

If teachers took this extra step - giving new dancers a heads up, and explaining that they shouldn't attach too much importance to being left during a tanda - maybe there would be less trama.

 

[Subliminal]

Mind telling us which city this was in?

Well, let's see if we have a "syncopated footwork" tangent!
Guess what everyone? There IS syncopation in tango music. So surely, there would be in our movements.

Washington DC area. The music workshop was lead by Otros Aires. I could PM you my notes if you'd like.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Could be interesting if you want to take the time.

One thing that comes up here is a lack of musicality classes, and/or how hard it is to teach musicality. So it's good to here that the ARE classes being taught!

 

[dchester]

Always bear in mind that the AT tanda makes the price of dancing with beginners pretty high. No beginner should be surprised when a more experienced and accomplished dancer excuses themselves after one or two songs. If I had done this more often, perserving my own sanity over not making someone "fell bad", maybe I would still be going to milongas on a routine basis.

If teachers took this extra step - giving new dancers a heads up, and explaining that they shouldn't attach too much importance to being left during a tanda - maybe there would be less trama.

This interests me, because it's so different from my experience early on. Getting "Thank You'd" was very much the exception when I first started out (and I really sucked back then). BTW, since then I've progressed all the way up to merely bad.

When starting out, I knew I was bad, and so did the followers, but most were very tolerant of my attempts at tango. In fact, one teacher kind of took me under her wing and would often dance a couple tandas with me (she asked me the first time, BTW). She would often point out some things I was doing good (my musicality), and of course things I needed to improve on (pretty much everything else). She was such a good follower, that I could do moves with her (that I had seen but never practiced), and they would almost always work the first time. She did more than anyone, to make me want to get better. I just hope that someday I'll get good enough to be able to influence others like that.

 

[bastet]

Another reason for the early“ thank you”. Often times the lady doesn’t know the rule of “thank you” I’ve had enough. When I dance with a beginner and I know she hasn’t got a clue about etiquette after the first dance if she says Thank You I politely ask, “would you like to dance another”
They will always accept and then you can explain that a “Thank You” means their ready to sit down.
Never do this with an experienced dancer that would be rude.

that's true- it is another scenario for the early "thank you". I probably did that when I first started out and was so excited just to be asked to dance and didn't realize my "faux pas" at the time...

 

[jantango]

Received on email from a friend - as follows:

http://www.close- embrace.com/ invitingetiquett e.html

Most of his "rules" apply only in ballrooms in the USA. I don't know where he came up with some of them.

If you are going to dance tango in Buenos Aires, you have another set of rules to learn and follow.

A "thank-you" from a woman during a tanda in Buenos Aires means we will never dance again.

 

[Peaches]

Most of his "rules" apply only in ballrooms in the USA. I don't know where he came up with some of them.

Well, considering that in his intro he stated the following:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]While the 'cabeceo' - or inviting people to dance with eye contact and a nod - is alive and well in Buenos Aires, we live in North America and as such our customs have to adapt.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'd say it's pretty obvious that that's exactly what he intended. All of his guidelines seemed perfectly logical and reasonable to me.
[/FONT]

 

[kieronneedscake]

When in Rome...

Those guidelines would land you in pretty good stead in most of Europe too. It certainly wouldn't take you long to realise if the local rules are different, or indeed if you've just invited a hotshot to dance and been given the cold shoulder. The clues are there!

Only the indecent and selfish remain oblivious.

 

[bordertangoman]

When in Rome...

Those guidelines would land you in pretty good stead in most of Europe too. It certainly wouldn't take you long to realise if the local rules are different, or indeed if you've just invited a hotshot to dance and been given the cold shoulder. The clues are there!

Only the indecent and selfish remain oblivious.

Oblivious of what?

 

[jantango]

Codigos of Buenos Aires v. Ney's rules for North Americans

Well, considering that in his intro he stated the following:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]While the 'cabeceo' - or inviting people to dance with eye contact and a nod - is alive and well in Buenos Aires, we live in North America and as such our customs have to adapt.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'd say it's pretty obvious that that's exactly what he intended. All of his guidelines seemed perfectly logical and reasonable to me.
[/FONT]

"Our customs have to adapt" -- I interpret this to mean that North Americans should learn and use the rules which were established with the dance. Tango was born in Buenos Aires where the rules were made decades ago. North Americans haven't adapted. They still don't want to use the cabeceo. Many cities still don't play dances in sets.

I don't know where he got the information that saying "no" means "maybe later." "No" means no. He gives the impression that he knows the rules of the milongas in Buenos Aires so his guidelines aren't questioned.

There is no chance of asking permission to dance with someone's partner when they are seated together in a BsAs milonga. They are seated together because they want to dance together exclusively. This is called respect.

 

[Dave Bailey]

"Our customs have to adapt" -- I interpret this to mean that North Americans should learn and use the rules which were established with the dance.

No, I think he means the opposite. Whether he's right or not is a different debate, of course, but I'm pretty sure he means that the cabaceo-based customs need to adapt, rather than the entire North American culture.

Tango was born in Buenos Aires where the rules were made decades ago. North Americans haven't adapted. They still don't want to use the cabeceo. Many cities still don't play dances in sets.

Yes. The same applies in the UK.

So either we butt our heads against the collective wall known as "different national cultures", or we accept that some aspects of BsAs tango culture are specific to a particular time and place, and that these aspects will adapt to different times and places.

 

[jantango]

No, I think he means the opposite. Whether he's right or not is a different debate, of course, but I'm pretty sure he means that the cabaceo-based customs need to adapt, rather than the entire North American culture.

Why should long-standing customs developed within the Buenos Aires tango culture have to change in order to please foreigners?

Take tango out of its culture and city, and it's no longer tango.

 

[Ampster]

Why should long-standing customs developed within the Buenos Aires tango culture have to change in order to please foreigners?

Take tango out of its culture and city, and it's no longer tango.

I don't think things are that rigid, nor so inflexible that it turns into nothing. There is always room to grow.

Take for instance, Swing. It came out of the southern US. Its popularity spread across the US, went out of out and spread throughout the world. Swing is also in BsAs, out of the city, country, and culture that created it. It's not dead, its still swing, and yes, even in its adopted environmnet, it still looks like swing to me. Even in BsAs.

My point is, cultures and customs migrate. When they do, they take root and evolve and become an extension of their origins that holds great resemblance to its parent originals. A great boon to BsAs and Argentina as it is a legacy to the world.

I give great appreciation to those who make that effort to keep tango as close to real as can be... within and outside BsAs.

 

[Peaches]

I don't think it's a question so much of anything needing to adapt to anywhere else...just that they will adapt. It's just human nature. Traditions adapt, cultures adapt, religions adapt, and...dances adapt. Every culture, every age will take what has come before it and make it their own--the essence of the original will remain, but it will be tweaked to fit new times.

If AT isn't AT without, let's see...what's the list of everything that it "has to have" to make it genuine AT...the "proper" embrace, the "proper" music, the customs of BsAs, the culture of BsAs...hell, Buenos Aires itself... Well, then, let's just go ahead and agree that no one outside of BsAs is doing real Argentine Tango and get it over with. There! Problem solved! I think we should give it a name...personally, I'm partial to "Plert" as the new name. (Don't ask me why, I couldn't tell you.) From now on, we're no longer discussing AT but, instead, discussing Plert.

Now, let's assume Ney was talking about Plert when he wrote about adapting Argentine customs to the US. Can we continue the discussion now, please, since we've sidestepped the issue of genuine Argentine Tango?

Crimeny.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Swing. It came out of the southern US.

Ouch. Can't let this one pass.
I'm pretty sure that "Swing", or more specifically the "first swing", Lindy Hop, was notable because it was the first African American dance that didn't come out of the South, being born in Harlem in New York City. (Unfortunately, wiki editors weren't real interested in a detailed account of history, and I may have trouble with references on this one. Swing thread, maybe?)