Conflicting Milongas

[jfm]

On a rare trip in to town from the provinces I went to North London's premiere Wednesday night Milonga... and found it almost empty! What's going on?

On a more general note, I've noticed that across the UK more and more towns are accruing nights with multiple milongas. I can see that survival of the fittest could be a good thing but it seems crazy in a community of 50 or fewer frequent dancers to split it like this. Especially if one night charges admission and provides drop in beginner lessons, but the other is free but excludes tango babies.
I have seen communities build to a very large number of members, over stretch with milongas on every night and then totally crash because everyone goes on a different night, hardly anyone is there and then stop going at all.
Any thoughts?

 

[Lui]

I would say, competing milongas are only dangerous fort the tango commuity, if they keep fighting over the same group of existing afficionados again and again. Once, every club starts to tap its individual marked und lures more and more non dancers into the Tango scene, they will provide variety and growth of the community.

Abandoning your favorite milonga just because it is empty, is a little bit rash. Here in Berlin, the "Walzer linksgestrickt" is a beautiful friday milonga, which has fallen from grace. Now everybody goes to "Tango tanzen macht schön". But I won’t travel 40 min. across town just to dance at a crowded makeshift milonga, when I can have a classic ballroom within 5 min by foot. Therefore, I started to visit this place more frequently enjoying the unusual amount of space as long as it lasts. I keep on inviting friends and students to join me, encouraging them to do the same. With a little bit of luck, this will gain momentum and we will gather a new crowd, this time shaped even more to my personal taste. The fate of a community is not set in stone, it can be changed by any individual.

 

[bordertangoman]

I would say, competing milongas are only dangerous fort the tango commuity, if they keep fighting over the same group of existing afficionados again and again. Once, every club starts to tap its individual marked und lures more and more non dancers into the Tango scene, they will provide variety and growth of the community.

Abandoning your favorite milonga just because it is empty, is a little bit rash. Here in Berlin, the "Walzer linksgestrickt" is a beautiful friday milonga, which has fallen from grace. Now everybody goes to "Tango tanzen macht schön". But I won’t travel 40 min. across town just to dance at a crowded makeshift milonga, when I can have a classic ballroom within 5 min by foot. Therefore, I started to visit this place more frequently enjoying the unusual amount of space as long as it lasts. I keep on inviting friends and students to join me, encouraging them to do the same. With a little bit of luck, this will gain momentum and we will gather a new crowd, this time shaped even more to my personal taste. The fate of a community is not set in stone, it can be changed by any individual.

wise words

 

[Dave Bailey]

On a rare trip in to town from the provinces I went to North London's premiere Wednesday night Milonga... and found it almost empty! What's going on?

Assuming you mean the Dome, I assume that people have gone to the Sway place in central London; I didn't realise it'd had such an effect though.

On a more general note, I've noticed that across the UK more and more towns are accruing nights with multiple milongas.

Well, that's good. Yes?

I can see that survival of the fittest could be a good thing but it seems crazy in a community of 50 or fewer frequent dancers to split it like this.

Depends how it goes. Dance scenes are usually a constant flux between competition and cooperation; the trick is to get the balance right.

Competition gives choice, definitely, and should drive up standards. Which should in turn recruit more people to dance.

Especially if one night charges admission and provides drop in beginner lessons, but the other is free but excludes tango babies.

Is this the Dome / Sway thing again?

I have seen communities build to a very large number of members, over stretch with milongas on every night and then totally crash because everyone goes on a different night, hardly anyone is there and then stop going at all.

Me too. Many times.

 

[AndaBien]

It all depends. If the conflicting milongas are there in a spirit of supporting and promoting tango, I think it's a good thing. All too often personal egos get involved, and then it's a destructive thing.

 

[Madahlia]

Originally Posted by jfm
On a more general note, I've noticed that across the UK more and more towns are accruing nights with multiple milongas.

Well, that's good. Yes?

No. It always infuriates me when this happens. One is forced to choose unnecessarily between the rival events, then there is the rest of the week with a dearth of choice.

It usually appears to me to be a thinly veiled attempt by one aggressive operator to destroy the business of another. How could that be good for dancers?

Of course, in a town with a small dance community it would be wise to tailor the number of events per week to suit the likely customer base. But this should not be beyond the negotiating skills of rival operators. Should it? In my area rival operators manage to work together - is this Utopia?

I think that extra nights (within reason) benefit the dance community and are likely to increase the overall number of dancers by creating more opportunity. And many dancers will attend more then one night a week anyway.

 

[Dave Bailey]

It usually appears to me to be a thinly veiled attempt by one aggressive operator to destroy the business of another. How could that be good for dancers?

Because the service offered by competition improves.

It depends whether you view the dance scene more as a business providing value for customers, or as a community where we can all join in and share the journey.

(It's both, of course - it's just a question of what's most important.)

If a new operator offers a better service, then the current operator either has to shape up or pull out. It's harsh for that operator, and may damage the community, but the rival will only succeed by the consent of the community anyhow - no-one forces us to dance, it's a leisure activity.

So if the community values continuity and social scene more, the rival won't succeed.

 

[bordertangoman]

So if the community values continuity and social scene more, the rival won't succeed.

IN my experience the community splits.....

 

[Mladenac]

usually in my experience every place has it's set of tandas and group of dancers.
After a while it could become boring, and as you know you go just for a change.

If i go to a new place i would like to have completely different enviroment.

 

[Me]

Well... I don't know the specific situation you are speaking of... But I will say that deliberately scheduling against other social dance events is just plain stupid. Most dance communities are not large enough to support that type of behavior. Generally, you force people to choose and you split the crowd. This generates negativity and hard feelings among the dancers. They're out to have a good time, and it makes them unhappy to not see all of their friends in one place. They are also resentful of the crowd being split - Most people want to attend a "big" dance with plenty of people to dance with.

 

[Madahlia]

Because the service offered by competition improves.

Well yes, I can see that where dancers have lots of choices for every night of the week (such as London) then competition would weed out the worst options. But in a smaller town where there are only one or two chances to dance tango each week then I think two providers could survive regardless of "quality". Put it this way, I would be so grateful to get the chance to dance tango mid-week without having to drive 40+ miles that I'd put up with just about any level of service.

I suppose my benchmarks of quality (at the moment) would be
*A decent number of nice people to dance with
*Convenient location
*High teaching standards for all levels
*Affordability

The nicest tango event of the week in my town is the Saturday practica which only satisfies the first two of these criteria.

 

[bjp22tango]

We have a tiny AT community in our rural area and we are already split because of style.

The main group are dancing only close embrace and don't like to dance to anything other than the original tangos, milongas, valses, no matter how bad the sound of the recording is.

The splintered group want more flexibility of style to dance in and music to dance to. A few of the dancers take all opportunities to dance. Most of them stay in their own camps.

It's really sad to see, but it is what it is.

 

[bordertangoman]

We have a tiny AT community in our rural area and we are already split because of style.

The main group are dancing only close embrace and don't like to dance to anything other than the original tangos, milongas, valses, no matter how bad the sound of the recording is.

The splintered group want more flexibility of style to dance in and music to dance to. A few of the dancers take all opportunities to dance. Most of them stay in their own camps.

It's really sad to see, but it is what it is.

we have something similar here; the split was created by a so called "Traditionlist" so goes around slagging off me and the other flexies whereas I would rather most people danced as much as possible to improve their ability.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

We have a tiny AT community in our rural area and we are already split because of style.

The main group are dancing only close embrace and don't like to dance to anything other than the original tangos, milongas, valses, no matter how bad the sound of the recording is.

The splintered group want more flexibility of style to dance in and music to dance to. A few of the dancers take all opportunities to dance. Most of them stay in their own camps.

It's really sad to see, but it is what it is.

Why sad? To each his own, and I think it is good that people can do what they like. If I do not like dancing open embrace, and to non-tango music, I would prefer to go to an all-traditional venue and be happy, than go to a mixed one, where I would be forced to sit through alternative sets of music, and be unsocial by declining invitations.
(And why the sound of recording has to be bad? Right now there are a lot of great CD's with tango music from the Golden Era available on Amazon dot com).