Contra body movement whilst walking
- Thread starter ant
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Me too. I also think of CBM as more of a gentle natural movement that can be fairly imperceptible, even to the person walking. I think of disassociation as a deliberate and more emphasized movement to lead a particular thing.
Natural CBM can vary quite a bit from person to person. For some, there is shoulder movement. For others (like me) the shoulder movement is negligible but there is some arm swinging. Likewise, for some the hips move contra to the shoulders. But for me, my hips do not move forward and back very much when I walk normally, but do move up and down, with some side to side motion.
Every time I've had a tango teacher tell me to let my hips move more forward and back like is "natural" in walking, I grit my teeth and do it while thinking "this takes effort and concentration for me... it's not at all my natural movement in walking forward. And there's not a whole lot natural about walking backwards in the first place!
It would seem to me that the only reason to use CBM in tango walking would be because it is a natural level of CBM for that leader and stifling it creates unnatural stiffness and tension. ADDING it to the point where someone has to think about doing it... what's the point?
Followers just do it or not depending on the leader... we can't really do it if you don't, and can't really NOT do it if you do except by absorbing it in our arms in OE. As I said, there's not much about the tango back walk that's natural to begin with (it's natural if you're walking backwards down an incline, but most people don't do that very often) so it's really about leaders and what works for them. Personally, I've never danced with someone who added much CBM, so I've no idea how it would affect me. If anyone I dance with uses it, it was natural enough that I didn't even register it specifically.
Disassociation to lead specific things properly (without resorting to arm leads) is a totally different thing.
I guess I'm still amazed at how many people think that because CBM (or whatever movement) is natural for them, then it must be natural for everyone else. They'll use all kinds of arguments to try to explain why what you do isn't natural. ex:
T: You do it naturally when running.
M: Well I'm not normally running in tango.
T: You do it naturally when swinging your arms while walking.
M: I'm not normally swinging my arms when dancing tango, as they are occupied.
T: Well something must have happened to you, because your movement is not natural.
M: I'll agree it's not natural for you, but I'm a different person from you.
(and so on)
I don't even engage in these discussions with teachers any more. I just tell them if there's something you want me to try, I'll try it. However, I'm not interested in discussing what's natural for me, when I've been me a lot longer than they have been me.M: Well I'm not normally running in tango.
T: You do it naturally when swinging your arms while walking.
M: I'm not normally swinging my arms when dancing tango, as they are occupied.
T: Well something must have happened to you, because your movement is not natural.
M: I'll agree it's not natural for you, but I'm a different person from you.
(and so on)
I will admit that for a few people, I've suggested they try CBM, because what was natural for them was the "Frankstein walk". It not only looked horrible, but it caused issues for their follower. Also, it's easier to tell someone what you want them to do, rather than what not to do.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
I think you have to use disassociation (at least a little) when doing CBM. But (of course) disassociation is used with other things as well, so they are not the same thing.
I would think that CBM requires association between hips and shoulders. In my mind dissociation is what kills CBM and leads to an awkward walk.
Added: I have always thought "dissociation" was an odd word to use when explaining how people should dance. IMO, most dancers need more association with their whole body. To me it's a bit like saying one should compartmentalize their movements.
As I understand it CBM is where one part of the body moves against but with reference to another moving part of the body (and from a dancing perspective) in order to counter any instability that the moving part causes.
Have you used the word disassociation intentionally?
In either case, whether this is the word intended or dissociation as I understand it this is where one part of the body moves without reference to the rest of of the body.
I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that it does not
generally exist in a persons natural walk or it does?
I did intentionally use disassociation. I think people use either term with tango. FWIW, I googled "tango and disassociation" and got more hits than "tango and dissociation". To be honest, I don't know (nor care) which is the "proper" term. When explaining it to beginners, I use the more simple term, twisting (and I've also heard people use the term torsion).
I am saying that it is natural for some, but not all people. We are not all built the same.
Yeah, I always assumed it was simply a 'specialty'/'speciality' kind of thing... though never cared enough to find out either... but I like to know stuff, so it's in the queue - will share in the unlikely event that there's actually an answer....
PS: The T: M: T: M: post made me chuckle - I know exactly what you mean...
PS: The T: M: T: M: post made me chuckle - I know exactly what you mean...
Mosca Negra
New Member
I am reminded of a scene in The Tango Lesson. Sally Potter was seated at a table at a milonga while speaking with an Englishman who knew a great deal about Tango, but who appeared rather awkward on the dance floor.