You will. Do you know how I know? You're asking the questions.
Contradictions in teaching “caminar”
- Thread starter latinjazz
- Start date
We don't have enough information to reconstruct the dancing and milongas of Buenos Aires in the 40s, and I would argue that it would be a bad idea to try to copy them exactly even if we could, because we are rooted in a completely different time and culture. I'd bet what is marketed as "milonguero style" today in an attempt to stick a label of authenticity on it has very little to do with what actually went on in the golden age.
Ultimately I think authenticity is the partners dancing according to their own feeling for the music rather than trying to copy the appearance of a style
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
How about the videos we have available? Most are fairly recent but some are older. A lot of the vintage footage, unfortunately, appears to be from films, which are unreliable for providing documentary evidence. As for the "milonguero style" (not an accurate name, however), I suspect it is what tango evolved toward after a period of decades in the milongas of central B.A. In a way, it may be its ultimate refinement.
Well the videos of the old generation from the 90s and so on suggest that there wasn't any standardization in styles. Perhaps the actual dancing in the 40s was fairly chaotic.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Not so much chaotic as possibly less refined (based solely on the limited videos of crowds dancing). Not all dancers were good dancers back then. That is why I said earlier that the so-called milonguero tradition (or style, if you will) may be its ultimate refinement. I've been told that dancers today *in general* are far better trained than back in the day. Now, whether that makes them better dancers or interpreters of the music is an open question. But technically and formally, they are probably better trained.
opendoor
Forum Master
Thanks for that Arquimbau link, I hadn't seen it before and it's a fascinating historical insight.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
TangoVoice has a lot to say about styles. Didn't know about the Arquimbau link though. Thanks for sharing. I'm going to grab my dictionary and make a go of it.
Whenever I think about "authenticity" i am going back and rewatch this:
This is a performance from a very respected tango couple (and at least she continued having a presence in tango for a long time, e.g 1970s. , 1990 , 2000 , 2005)and the vocabulary they dance is almost alien to what we think of as tango today. (interestingly enough it is not actually her that is changing as much as what the leaders do) (this is not a weird outlier -there are quite a few clips of performances from argentinean movies, and up to the late 1950's tango is very consistently portrayed like this) Even the "background dancers" are really all about cuts and hops - maybe we would do well to get in touch with the roots that tango has in polka - GA tango in BA might have been quite lively.
I have often thought i should take the 1933 performance and perform it at a milonga some time
.I don't accept that site as a credible source on the basis that someone anonymously making the absurd claim to be "the voice of tango in North America" probably has an agenda to push.
Arquimbau also described tango as being danced in the 40s with boleos, ganchos and so on, sometimes resulting in fights caused by people getting kicked or crashed into (I guess some things never change).
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Yeah, I'm familiar with the Cachafaz video. I don't think it's representative. To tell the truth, I could live without "cuts and hops" in my tango.Whenever I think about "authenticity" i am going back and rewatch this:
This is a performance from a very respected tango couple (and at least she continued having a presence in tango for a long time, e.g 1970s. , 1990 , 2000 , 2005) and the vocabulary they dance is almost alien to what we think of as tango today. (interestingly enough it is not actually her that is changing as much as what the leaders do) (this is not a weird outlier -there are quite a few clips of performances from argentinean movies, and up to the late 1950's tango is very consistently portrayed like this) Even the "background dancers" are really all about cuts and hops - maybe we would do well to get in touch with the roots that tango has in polka - GA tango in BA might have been quite lively.
I have often thought i should take the 1933 performance and perform it at a milonga some time
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Maybe, but he's done his research and makes compelling arguments for his (her?) positions. Most of what he says makes sense to me. It's a bit prescriptive and didactic but the writer has done a great deal of work in putting the blog together.
Would you like them better if they were cortes and quebradas?
I think it is at least somewhat representative: Gardels tango (though less skilled) is obviously from the same lineage, as is el pibe palermo (early villa crespo, and even in the 1940s people thought he was old school tango).
If we follow Arquimbaus timeline then what people like tangovoices consider to be tango is not the authentic tango as it developed in the 40's, but the what happened in the 50s when the original tango was changed into an intimate dance for a couple by the people who lingered on in the scene.
(really interesting - he talks about a male-male couple dancing with role switching and everything, and that they were actually asked to perform because they were so good, and how all the young people danced big and wild and bumped into people - "authentic tango" might have much more in common with a 2000s nuevo practica than anything else - thanks, opendoor, this is a great link)
Having done research is no guarantee of presenting a balanced or accurate picture, especially when it comes to history. Authors can, and often do, selectively choose what material to present in a way that supports their thesis.