Contradictions in teaching “caminar”

[Gssh]

However, I don't search for a "breathing" floor, just for a ronda moving in a coherent way so that the phrases of the music can get recognized. But without audio there seems to be a muddle of movements.

I have looked at a few, and there are some that look better to me than others, but i can't quite articulate the difference, so have no evidence that this is not just me being biased because i know the milonga - there is probably always some muddle of movements because people do different interpretations, and i am not sure what makes it feel different when one is inside. (even complete synchrony is probably not a good indicator - i have been on dancefloors dancing one of the milongas with the really obvious breaks, and literally everybody hit them, but it was not a very comfortable ronda)

In some ways it is similar to freeway driving - sometimes it is relaxing kind of school of fish feel, where we all work together and the traffic just flows, and sometimes it feels like a ben hur style race where everybody is out to get everybody, and i am not sure if it looks objectively different.

 

[Rabbit]

In some ways it is similar to freeway driving - sometimes it is relaxing kind of school of fish feel, where we all work together and the traffic just flows, and sometimes it feels like a ben hur style race where everybody is out to get everybody, and i am not sure if it looks objectively different.

I think a small pocket of couples using the space and music harmoniously is good enough, and that's easier to find.

 

[opendoor]

thanks to you guys!

Welcome to DF, Gina!

 

[latinjazz]

Update to my struggle:
Yesterday finally at my Tango course we repeated the basics of walking, we did 90min just that.
This is about half the time we used to do that in BA.. Now whith another explanation, but this one makes sense to me. I'll be practicing this all the time I can.

BTW, there is something I really like about Tango dancing and practicing with people.
In school and at practicas, followers always give me feedback about my lead all the time, even without me asking. I do the same. This kind of openness helps me a lot to learn.
I don't know if it exists in other styles, but in Salsa people don't do that. I wish this would be the case in all dances!

 

[JohnEm]

Update to my struggle:
Yesterday finally at my Tango course we repeated the basics of walking, we did 90min just that.
This is about half the time we used to do that in BA.. Now whith another explanation, but this one makes sense to me. I'll be practicing this all the time I can.

BTW, there is something I really like about Tango dancing and practicing with people.
In school and at practicas, followers always give me feedback about my lead all the time, even without me asking. I do the same. This kind of openness helps me a lot to learn.
I don't know if it exists in other styles, but in Salsa people don't do that. I wish this would be the case in all dances!

Since this is a thread about contradictions in teaching walking,
what's the difference that now it makes sense to you?

As an aside - this question is despite my opinion that far too much
emphasis is on walking rather than dancing.

 

[latinjazz]

Since this is a thread about contradictions in teaching walking,
what's the difference that now it makes sense to you?

As an aside - this question is despite my opinion that far too much
emphasis is on walking rather than dancing.

The difference was that this time the different elements of walking were separatedly explained and separately practiced, only combining them in the end:
Only projection, only standing having the axis, only pushing of the back foot, etc...
But most of the reason it makes more sense is that I know a bit more about it, also thanks to this forum.
For example, I could identify some of the taught elements as part of a style and not of basic technique, which allows me to focus more on the elementary aspects...
This is as good as I can explain it right now - is it understandable?


I can't really comment on your opinion about walking/dancing yet, but in my personal case I was rather fed with patterns than with walking and somehow still feel like an "impostor" in the sense that I can do them but somehow don't feel my balance and body control yet. But I might see these things differently one day.

 

[JohnEm]

The difference was that this time the different elements of walking were separatedly explained and separately practiced, only combining them in the end:
Only projection, only standing having the axis, only pushing of the back foot, etc...
But most of the reason it makes more sense is that I know a bit more about it, also thanks to this forum.
For example, I could identify some of the taught elements as part of a style and not of basic technique, which allows me to focus more on the elementary aspects...
This is as good as I can explain it right now - is it understandable?

Not really! Only by making inferences from what you have written
which could easily be wrong. For instance when you mention projection,
projection of what? One of my teachers when talking of projection
would mean chest projection and yet @opendoor would mean projection
of the foot and/or leg.

I can't really comment on your opinion about walking/dancing yet, but in my personal case I was rather fed with patterns than with walking and somehow still feel like an "impostor" in the sense that I can do them but somehow don't feel my balance and body control yet. But I might see these things differently one day.

In my view balance and body control are much more important
than any class on walking. To walk well, first you must walk a lot
on all kinds of terrain and the fact is today that most of us don't.

 

[Bailango]

Update to my struggle:
Yesterday finally at my Tango course we repeated the basics of walking, we did 90min just that.
This is about half the time we used to do that in BA.. Now whith another explanation, but this one makes sense to me. I'll be practicing this all the time I can.

BTW, there is something I really like about Tango dancing and practicing with people.
In school and at practicas, followers always give me feedback about my lead all the time, even without me asking. I do the same. This kind of openness helps me a lot to learn.
I don't know if it exists in other styles, but in Salsa people don't do that. I wish this would be the case in all dances!

In practica the feedback is expected, solicited, given and taken. That is the whole purpose of practica. It is a safe place to improve your skills in a useful and deliberate way. To best of my knowledge the tradition of practica is unique to Tango. I haven't been to a Tango scene that doesn't have practica.

 

[Bailango]

Not really! Only by making inferences from what you have written
which could easily be wrong. For instance when you mention projection,
projection of what? One of my teachers when talking of projection
would mean chest projection and yet @opendoor would mean projection
of the foot and/or leg.

A word can have more than one meaning or used in different ways. The context of your understanding of a word can be different.

I can see how both the chest projection and leg projection are both right. They are a continuum of the action of creating the projection. Not to be pedantic but I think 'chest projection' is misrepresentation of trying to explaination of how the intention is manifested in the upper part of body/torso. A bigger discussion would be cause and effect. Is the intention that the partner may feel through what your instructor calls "chest projection" the effect of something else or the cause. While some instructors focus on leg projection as an explanation, the intention received is result of not only the leg projection but the whole body.

 

[opendoor]

..I can see how both the chest projection and leg projection are both right..

Of course projection works with any part of the body. And speaking practically, when leading with the torso this is the starting point of projection, but it finds its way at least through either body down to the legs of the follower. But John and I made friends concerning this (but in secret I am convinced that his leading technique also has degrees of projection, though he is not aware of it. What in turn he sees in me.. better I should not know).

 

[latinjazz]

Not really! Only by making inferences from what you have written
which could easily be wrong. For instance when you mention projection,
projection of what? One of my teachers when talking of projection
would mean chest projection and yet @opendoor would mean projection
of the foot and/or leg.

Now that I finally have something it still might be wrong? Wouldn't amaze me - it's Tango...
I was talking about foot projection when walking. In this context what we did yesterday was walking alonge, I have to precise. So there was no leading involved, actually we even let the chest out.
It was all about weight transfer...

Unfortunately, my English is really not good enough to explain better, and I have no videos to show so you could give your opinion to it...

Does it sound wrong to you?

 

[JohnEm]

Now that I finally have something it still might be wrong? Wouldn't amaze me - it's Tango...
I was talking about foot projection when walking. In this context what we did yesterday was walking alonge, I have to precise. So there was no leading involved, actually we even let the chest out.
It was all about weight transfer...

Does it sound wrong to you?

To me, it's wrong. While to @opendoor, probably it's good!
And while you can dance like that (well not without connection)
this way of dancing comes from performance.

If you watch the Ricardo Vidort videos you'll see no step projection,
his step is the very extreme opposite in which his step (foot landing)
is delayed as long as possible - not in relation to the beat but in
relation to the movement and the weight of his body.

These two ways of dancing are the extreme opposites and there
many variations of connection, body posture and movement
between the two. When you know enough, are physically strong enough
and confident enough, then that may be the time to choose.
Meanwhile along the way you will possibly learn all the contradictions and
the only the way to stop that is to take control of your learning yourself.

 

[latinjazz]

Right now, I don’t really have anither option than to stick to my school and try to progress in this way.
For some reason, this step projection thing is the part that has me most sceptical yet, but I think I’m slowly getting the general idea of weight transfer slowly - at least mentally.

I’ll watch some videos of him right now..

 

[Rabbit]

For some reason, this step projection thing is the part that has me most sceptical yet, but I think I’m slowly getting the general idea of weight transfer slowly - at least mentally.

It's good practice to learn multiple possible styles of walking anyway, then you have different options to express the music. The "different" walks all rely on the same fundamental skills such as being able to hold your body still over the standing leg.

 

[latinjazz]

If you watch the Ricardo Vidort videos you'll see no step projection,
his step is the very extreme opposite in which his step (foot landing)
is delayed as long as possible - not in relation to the beat but in
relation to the movement and the weight of his body.

You are right, I see no step projection.
I don’t know about other styles yet, I’ll keep watching videos... Quite a new thing to me!
Salsa dance videos for example don’t interest me at all, no idea why..