Crossing over from ballroom to Tango

[bordertangoman]

Quick, someone make a snide remark about how BR ruins AT before the thread dies!

well it does; the first ballroom follower who i met ,who was teaching AT, was really stiff and changed direction like a chicken; reacted to all leads as if they were 'moves' with no concept of moving within the step. she has finally become a nice AT dancer.

usually they are parallel system addicts and so and you switch to cross system they do their best to add in a step to get back into parallel. Hullo! I didnt lead that!


It must be all that head jerking they do... affects the brains I think

 

[Dave Bailey]

I agree that it can't HURT, but that doesn't mean it should be necessary. That's all I was saying.

Fair enough. I think the value would depend on the audience - but ultimately knowing another dance will always be less useful than knowing the dance you're teaching

The exception would be things like Swango and Bachatango. Obviously you can't teach these merged styles without understanding both dances that are being merged.

Bachatatango? Really? Blimey...

I expect ZumbaTango is next.

 

[UKDancer]

It must be all that head jerking they do... affects the brains I think

What brains? :headwall:

 

[Subliminal]

Fair enough. I think the value would depend on the audience - but ultimately knowing another dance will always be less useful than knowing the dance you're teaching


Bachatatango? Really? Blimey...

I expect ZumbaTango is next.

Bachatatango? What do you do, just add a butt wiggle to your step?!

ZumbaTango... if it doesn't exist, I will create it! Anyone else want to help me make a ZumbaTango video? We'll make millions.

 

[Dave Bailey]

ZumbaTango... if it doesn't exist, I will create it! Anyone else want to help me make a ZumbaTango video? We'll make millions.

Too late...

 

[dchester]

Too late...

These aren't the droids we are looking for.

 

[Angel HI]

well it does;

But, really, it doesn't have to.

...the first ballroom follower who i met ,who was teaching AT, was really stiff and changed direction like a chicken; reacted to all leads as if they were 'moves' with no concept of moving within the step.

These are persons whom have never 'learned to dance'. They only know BR from the book, syllabi, or DS (even worse).

 

[twnkltoz]

These aren't the droids we are looking for.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pGOnGM04xgk/SRvCqqyHXZI/AAAAAAAADcY/AhFvmtOHXT0/s1600-h/Droids.jpg

 

[NZ_Guy]

My inexpert thoughts on this so far...

I'm a social ballroom dancer (leader, intl. standard) who has been learning/dancing AT for the past 4 months (and I keep getting complimented by teachers and partners), and don't see any reason why an intl. ballroom leader would have trouble with AT.

The major differences I see are (1) the leader needs to be aware of which foot the followers weight is on, and (2) that because AT has no momentum in the movement, you get to be more expressive in your musical interpretation. Musicality in ballroom is considerably more subtle (some dancers don't even bother with it).

I'd say for tango and vals, there are characteristics of ballroom waltz, foxtrot and rumba. The milonga however has no parallels to ballroom that I can see. (I personally find my ballroom tango experience slightly beneficial with milonga).

I don't know how common this is, but in my limited experience DJs can get a bit experimental with the song choice for the milonga tandas. There was one tanda where if I danced ballroom latin I'm sure I'd have thrown in a lot of Samba in there...

Ballroom followers will, I suspect, find the transition a bit harder. Might be beneficial to their ballroom dancing though.

 

[bordertangoman]

I'm a social ballroom dancer (leader, intl. standard) who has been learning/dancing AT for the past 4 months (and I keep getting complimented by teachers and partners), and don't see any reason why an intl. ballroom leader would have trouble with AT.

The major differences I see are (1) the leader needs to be aware of which foot the followers weight is on,.

Absolutely

(2) that because AT has no momentum in the movement,.

I'm not sure that this is true. It can be danced with or without momentum.watch Carlito & Mamie on Youtube and you'll see a lot of energy, but maybe you mean something specific?

you get to be more expressive in your musical interpretation. Musicality in ballroom is considerably more subtle (some dancers don't even bother with it). .

lol

I would add that AT has cross-sytem in stepping which gets tricky for ballroom followers who are CERTAIN they should remain in parallel even if it means an unled step. They soon learn after I tread on their toes (Joke people joke!)

 

[dancerman]

isn't it true that frame and posture are completely different in AT? Also the hold between partners is different.

Absolutely

I'm not sure that this is true. It can be danced with or without momentum.watch Carlito & Mamie on Youtube and you'll see a lot of energy, but maybe you mean something specific?


lol

I would add that AT has cross-sytem in stepping which gets tricky for ballroom followers who are CERTAIN they should remain in parallel even if it means an unled step. They soon learn after I tread on their toes (Joke people joke!)

 

[Dave Bailey]

I'm a social ballroom dancer (leader, intl. standard) who has been learning/dancing AT for the past 4 months (and I keep getting complimented by teachers and partners), and don't see any reason why an intl. ballroom leader would have trouble with AT.

"Trouble" - hmmm, dunno. I think that depends on what you mean. Experience in other dance forms may help, yes. But you won't be able to simply "pick up" AT just because you've done ballroom tango. Any more than you can "pick up" fluency in French just because you know Italian.

The major differences I see are (1) the leader needs to be aware of which foot the followers weight is on,

Well, yes, obviously. I'd hope that leaders would think this important in all dance forms, but yes, it's definitely more important in AT.

and (2) that because AT has no momentum in the movement, you get to be more expressive in your musical interpretation.

Not really - it depends on the movements.

There are many other differences (posture, for example).

Generally I think it sounds like you're trying to find analogies for shortcuts, and I don't think that approach works very well, although I understand why people do it, we're all lazy

I'd suggest you treat it as an entirely new dance.

 

[Dave Bailey]

isn't it true that frame and posture are completely different in AT?

Yes, posture is definitely different.
<vast oversimplification>
For couples, ballroom posture creates a "Y" shape. AT posture creates an upside-down "Y" shape.
</vast oversimplification>

"Frame"... mmm, AT dancers don't really use that term much. But yes, it's different I think.

Also the hold between partners is different.

Yep. Also, the embrace in AT can vary quite a lot.

 

[NZ_Guy]

I'm not sure that this is true.

Perhaps. But in a social context I think my point still holds true. AT followers in my limited experience don't handle fast and long strides at all, and besides, you'd be pretty lucky if you have that sort of space. Crowded, small floors are the norm in AT. The good thing about all this of course is that floorcraft is so much easier in AT.

lol

The musicality that the leader can impart in ballroom is pretty much with tempo rubato, a well placed checked or half-beat step, and the shaping he creates with his spine (only slight - the follower does the majority of this), subtle variations in the character of the rise and fall and the even subtler aspect of breathing. There are also various line figures that can emphasise certain sections of the music but I don't like them on a social floor (I think they create floorcraft issues for others). Ballroom tango does allow more room to be creative because the momentum in the dance is checked, and you have the options of legato and staccato foot and body speed. But still not as much room as in AT because BT has no steps without a weight change at the end, as far as I'm aware (the ballroom swing dances do).

Musicality in social ballroom is difficult because floorcraft and protecting your partner from collisions is the priority, and your choice of steps, and the character of their execution, is more influenced by this than any concerns with the music. I'm certainly not as musical in my ballroom as I could be. Still working on it.

I would add that AT has cross-sytem in stepping

I don't think this will be an issue for leaders as long as they aware of which is the followers standing leg [point (1)].

Might be an issue for followers. I couldn't say - I haven't tried genuinely following in either ballroom or AT. I will at some point want to do that as I think learning to follow makes for a better leader.


-

I'd also add that one thing that takes some getting used to, for me, is the assertiveness of the arms in AT leading - The security of the embrace seems essential. In ballroom there is a signal-execute-follow cycle (the leader signals his instruction, the follower executes it, and the leader follows the follower as she does so). I suspect that many AT followers would find this approach to soft.

 

[NZ_Guy]

isn't it true that frame and posture are completely different in AT? Also the hold between partners is different.

For the leader, not much needs to change. The connection in ballroom is in the hip area. In tango the connection is wherever the shorter partner's chest is (chest to chest works best). The right arm in AT is an embrace (comfortable and secure). In ballroom this is a guiding hand at most - in AT this arm provides clarity of intention. The left arm is mostly decorative in both dances - just be sure to keep it close in AT, especially at a crowded milonga.

I find I place my body weight slightly back in the foot than for a waltz, but more forward in the foot than for a ballroom tango. The knees will be a bit straighter in AT.

For followers, a lot will have to change I suppose. I can't really comment.