Crossing over from ballroom to Tango

bordertangoman said:
really coming from a musician??????; you surprise me..the brains delight in music is our ability to anticipate what is coming and occasionaly be confounded

(Sweet Anticipation: Music and the Psychology of Expectation: DAvid Huron)

otherwise we'd be tangoing to Japanese or Chinese music...which really be would be in the moment.
Click to expand...

When it comes to actual dancing, I'd rather be the child or the elderly monk...not the musician or analyst. ;)
 
Zoopsia59 said:
Clearly, everyone else is using "in the moment" to mean some zen state of higher consciousness. I just meant not planning specific step patterns too far ahead based on knowing that in 15 measures the music is going to change. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
"In-the-moment" isn't *that* big a deal. Most followers are already there, I mean it's pretty much inherent in following. I was just trying to make the point that it takes a bit more for leaders to get there. It's not that easy taking all those things leaders usually do consciously and shifting to doing them without thinking. Hence leaders and followers tending to approach musicality differently. :)
 
Terpsichorean Clod said:
"In-the-moment" isn't *that* big a deal. Most followers are already there, I mean it's pretty much inherent in following. I was just trying to make the point that it takes a bit more for leaders to get there. It's not that easy taking all those things leaders usually do consciously and shifting to doing them without thinking. Hence leaders and followers tending to approach musicality differently. :)
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
bordertangoman said:
otherwise we'd be tangoing to Japanese or Chinese music...which really be would be in the moment.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, I LOVE Japanese and Chinese music. If I had time, the instrument I'd want to learn is the Koto (the Zheng would be my next choice). I also occasionally listen to Thai music, but it is harder to find.

And yes, even that kind of music makes me want to move to it. (actually Chinese music runs quite a gamut. When you think of the geography and history, it's no surprise that some traditional pieces are reminiscent of Russian music, some sounds more like music from India and I even have a piece that sounds somewhat Irish (actually the geography makes no sense there!)
 
tangomonkey said:
Has anyone suggested that? Maybe I missed it. I think it's obvious, "doing", reacting in time to the music at this moment, not "planning" for what is to come will produce a better dance. Don't think anyone has said otherwise.
Click to expand...

we've gone round in circles. The comment was made that being in the moment would make certain things like floorcraft more difficult. I stated something along the lines that navigation (floorcraft) requires being in the moment and I got shot down because there were varying definitions of "in the moment" which often referred to not dancing "consciously". We probably all agree more than we disagree, but it sure seems to me like I got contradicted by people who are now saying the same thing I did.

If being "in the moment" means reacting instinctively rather than consciously, then you are talking about some higher zen thingy that isn't what I meant. If being in the moment means not planning your steps too far ahead, then being in the moment shouldn't make floorcraft more difficult, it should actually facilitate floorcraft and be a necessary component of navigating in real time under real conditions.

Frankly, I don't know who said what or what anyone meant anymore, although my memory is that the person making the claim that being in the moment makes certain leader responsibilities more difficult is primarily a BR not AT leader. Perhaps BR dancers are more predictable than AT dancers.

I just had a quibble with the idea that being "in the moment" makes floorcraft harder based on my definition of being in the moment. It seems everyone has their own definition of in the moment and that's led to the confusion.
 
Terpsichorean Clod said:
"In-the-moment" isn't *that* big a deal. ... It's not that easy taking all those things leaders usually do consciously and shifting to doing them without thinking.
Click to expand...

See? You are using "in the moment" to mean something different than I was. Being in the moment doesn't always mean (to me) an absence of conscious thought process.

In the moment: this moment (or the ones fairly close by) as opposed to some future moment

In the moment: Doing things without thinking vs doing them consciously.

Really, those are two different definitions (and I'm sure someone will say they aren't because of this or that, and I really don't want to debate it... I'm just trying to straighten out the confusion and why I responded as I did to the notion that being in the moment makes floorcraft harder)
 
Zoopsia59 said:
If being "in the moment" means reacting instinctively rather than consciously
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I meant. :)
If being in the moment means not planning your steps too far ahead, then being in the moment shouldn't make floorcraft more difficult, it should actually facilitate floorcraft and be a necessary component of navigating in real time under real conditions.
Click to expand...
Not what I meant, but I agree with your logic. :)
 
I dunno. I think there are two types of "In the Moment". There are times when everything seems to flow naturally without any thought, which is what TC is talking about I think. Then for me, there are times of hyper awareness, when everything seems crisp and sharp and clear. Sometimes I do think about what I'm doing then, and plan something intentionally neat that will make my partner smile. But my thoughts are zipping around so fast, it doesn't interrupt the flow of the dance.

The latter state often happens to me in milonga, actually. Drink 6 cups of coffee, snort some pixie sticks, and BAM! Off we go! Dun, da da da, dun!
 
opendoor said:
Im a leader, so may I answer although? Did you ever follow? My first teacher trained us to dance either role. When following, the attention goes into a totally different direction. If not you will not become as good in following as possible. You have to decide which side you are on, where your attention your awareness is going to. I know some women who changed their role, and I noted it long before: they listened to the music as I did and sometimes we got into a very subtile rivalry.


By the way, (beg your pardon) I havent read all of your posts, but till now I was profoundly convinced that you are a leading guy. Are you anyway?
Click to expand...

As a follower, this is how I feel: I don't have much control over musicality. However, it is very satisfactory to dance to a rich piece of tango with a leader who is musical. In such case, we are also given the chance to express music through our body and feet.

Sometimes, a leader hears the music completely different from the way I do, then I have to tune out the music and just follow. That would be a painful dance. There are leaders (fortunately not very many) who claim to have danced for years and yet could not dance to music. When dancing with such leader, I just have to ignore the music, or else we would be fighting from beginning to end.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
It could be that women are more likely to be "dancers" like me and don't feel a need to analyze the music. They feel it and they know what's about to happen because they feel it, not because they study it. (leaders are frequently baffled how I know to be ready to stop for the last note as though I know it is coming... I DO know it's coming even in an unfamiliar piece... although I sometimes get taken by surprise when it continues)
Click to expand...
Exactly, in my case.

Zoopsia59 said:
It could be that since followers don't get to decide where to go and what to do to the music, there's no point for them in dissecting the counts and phrases.

It could be that since followers don't have to plan ahead, and in fact should NOT plan ahead, they don't care about what's coming up in the music.
Click to expand...
I don't quite agree, because sometimes I also lead. My inexperienced lead lacks a big repository of dance moves, but was not bad on musicality. You lead, too, Zoop. Do you have to analyze the music when you lead?

I often think it is not me who decide what to do with the music. Instead, it is the music which determines what I do. I was lead by the music and I transfer that lead from music to the follower.
 
I think you guys have missed the point completely. I believe TC's "in the moment" is not intended to be divided or seperated between or from feeling, not over-thinking, or consciously reacting. In order to be "in the moment" one definitely has to be consciously proactive; if not, one is not in the moment, they are off in la la land somewhere blindly following some disfocused impulse. To me, and I believe to TC, in the moment means being actively involved in the dance, in the partner, and in the response at each moment, yet allowing these things to happen freely and void of preconceived cognition.
 
Angel HI said:
I think you guys have missed the point completely. I believe TC's "in the moment" is not intended to be divided or seperated between or from feeling, not over-thinking, or consciously reacting. In order to be "in the moment" one definitely has to be consciously proactive; if not, one is not in the moment, they are off in la la land somewhere blindly following some disfocused impulse. To me, and I believe to TC, in the moment means being actively involved in the dance, in the partner, and in the response at each moment, yet allowing these things to happen freely and void of preconceived cognition.
Click to expand...

I don't think I have missed TC's point, Angel. Maybe because he said he agreed with what I wrote. Even if I have, I have my own opinion, for whatever it's worth.

May I suggest we replace "in the moment" with "in the zone"? Any accomplished athlete or performing artist knows what that means. It is no "la la land". It is a state of mind and action where the training, study, analysis, etc. dissolves and everything just happens without being forced and consciously planned. That is my ideal, reached sometimes - but not enough.

This subjective, impossible to define stuff is making me ill. I'll return to my objective world of analysis of El Choclo's Section C...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top