Has anyone else noticed that recent competitions are getting, shall we say, stingy about prizes and awards? An upcoming comp I will be attending now has no actual cash prizes for "scholarship" categories, only vouchers for next year's comps--which we may or may not be in. Another recent comp had no trophies (and no award presentations). Participating gifts are no longer the classy looking statuettes but cheap bags that fall apart in a week, etc., etc. Understood that comps are getting expensive, but I thought the whole point of cash awards for scholarship categories was to enable students to pay for more lessons? And yes, there is the joy of dancing at a competition but not meaning to sound greedy, sometimes tangible awards are nice too.
Cutbacks in Comp Prizes?
- Thread starter pnoisette
- Start date
tanya_the_dancer
Well-Known Member
I'd say I didn't notice it, at least on the closed levels. At one comp though, I was mildly annoyed when they cut prizes in half if they had less than 5 couples in the scholarship, yet they offerend the scholarship in 3(!) age categories: under 35, 35 -55 and 55+, even though there are usually few under 35 competitors compared to the other 2 groups. Another similar sized comp I've been to didn't have age categories for scholarships at all.
fascination
Site Moderator
and I spend too much on a comp for most awards to even be relevant...and I really don't care much...as long as the organizers are friendly and helpful, I'm good
elisedance
Active Member
Its a pit-filled road: currently many comps are funded by Pro/Am competitors, cutting scholarships will undoubtedly reduce the number of entrants at the higher level - which will likely make the comp less of a 'must do' down the line. It would be interesting to compare the number of entrants in comparison to the 'pot'. One tight comp I recently went to had almost no scholarship entrants at all
One comp, where the entrace was $35 per heat was giving a $5/2/1 coupons for 1-3rd place. Frankly, I that find that insulting and would much rather have a trophy, however gaudy, to stack in the basement and show a future grandchild.
One comp, where the entrace was $35 per heat was giving a $5/2/1 coupons for 1-3rd place. Frankly, I that find that insulting and would much rather have a trophy, however gaudy, to stack in the basement and show a future grandchild.
Laura
Well-Known Member
I don't know about that -- it really depends on how it's done and what the rest of the comp is like. The women I know doing high level scholarships certainly aren't doing it for the money. There simply is not enough money involved to even make a dent in the cost of the competition. Rather, they do it because the Scholarship events are considered to be the most prestigious, and because they are often run at night when there is an actual audience to dance in front of. For me the "actual audience to dance in front of" is the biggest draw.
I have the reverse feeling -- I throw out the trophies, or give them to my local ballroom club where they are recycled into prizes for the Pre-teen and Junior events. I'd much rather have the $5 coupon. I once got a coupon for one free entry for coming in 6th in a Scholarship, which was nifty to me because previously the places below 3rd never got anything at all. I figure a coupon worth $35 was better than nothing!
cornutt
Forum Master
This touches on a point that I thought about bringing up earlier on one of the "how do we encourage more adult-start competitors" threads, but didn't because it didn't quite fit in. I was going to start a new thread for it, but I think it fits in here.
I believe that for many of the closed and syllabus-level competitors, their main motivation for competing, other than self-motivation to improve, is recognition. This doesn't necessarily mean a cash award, but it does mean that success is acknowledged somehow. The main means for achieving this acknowledgement is the awards announcements/ceremonies. The actual prizes I think are secondary -- it's receiving the announcement and the tangible acknowledgement of the accomplishment that matters.
Which brings me to the topic. I've noticed a trend the past few years for comps to break up awards periods and spend as little time as possible on them. A comp will blow through 50 heats' worth of awards in five minutes, announcing winners only by first names or numbers, and doing it so fast that even the competitors themselves, armed with their heat lists, can't keep up. Not much satisfaction in that. And the awards periods aren't necessarily done on a schedule; the organizers just throw them wherever they have a few minutes free. That means that competitors that have left the ballroom, perhaps to change or get ready for dinner or whatever, sometimes miss their awards altogether. People go home not even knowing how they did in half of their heats, and have to wait another week until all the results are posted on the Web site.
There's got to be a better way somehow. I know that doing a long ceremony with medals and people standing on Olympic platforms just isn't practical for every heat. Maybe the awards annoucements for the syllabus heats needs to be dispensed with altogether, as currently all it does is waste time and it doesn't really satisfy anyone. I could envision something like a video screen with a scrolling list of results for the current session, into which the scruitneer's computer inserts results as soon as the scrutineer has completed entering each heat. (A similar system could be used for posting callbacks, so that competitors don't have to wait until the semi/final to find out if they are called back or not.) I also think a printout should be posted at the end of each session that everyone can go look at. Things like prize coupons could be compiled at the end of each sesssion, and each competitor could pick theirs up from the registrar. (Hint: A sufficiently clever computer system could print the prize coupons for each competitor automatically.)
elisedance
Active Member
I know its not a lot compared to the thousands that a comp costs but for me a cash award of $250 actually does make a difference - at least it covers my enterance fees. Since most competitions do not give a trophy (or anything else) in the scholarhip event, the cash award is also symbolic of the value of winning (whether you like it or not).
Sorry, but I am a bit confused from from the paragraph above: you consider a $5 coupon (or $35 entrance fee) better than nothing but a $250 (or more) award to be dispensible?
If you are going to get an award the entrance fee should be the very minimum at 1st place. Anything else is disingenuous since the organizers are still making a profit from your performance.
Laura
Well-Known Member
This is simply poor planning on the organizer's part. It is 100% completely possible to reasonably estimate how much time it takes for awards and to schedule awards breaks. Really, it all depends on who is setting the schedule for the competition. We don't really have this problem in my area, because there is one local person who tends to scrutineer and set the schedule for the majority of the local comps. She has been quite willing to teach others how to do what she does, and in fact I learned everything I know about setting schedules for a comp from her.
When I set a schedule, I put an awards break every 45 minutes to 1 hour (and as time goes on I'm getting closer to hitting it every 45 minutes), and I know how to figure out based on the number of heats danced and the number of competitors per heat how long I should make the awards break. This, then, can all go into the printed program so that people will know what is up.
Now, sometimes when a comp gets behind for whatever reason, the Chairman of Judges will decide to plow on ahead to get the comp back on schedule. After all, a daytime session needs to end on time so that the ballroom can be cleaned up and re-set for the evening session. But still, if the session is appropriately planned, then this is all doable.
Sometimes the best laid plans go out the window, though, because in Pro/Am comps it is basically policy to NEVER turn away a late entry, so long as there is some way to shoehorn it in. This can result in more heats being run between awards breaks, or awards being hurried. But this is an exception rather than the rule, because a skilled planner usually leaves a little extra slop in the schedule here and there to accommodate the inevitable last-minute additions.
This is already possible, again it's just a matter of style. In competitions that use O2CM, this can happen pretty much instantaneously and the recalls can be shown on a screen in the ondeck or warmup area (this is what we do at our local USA Dance comps). At comps that use CompMgr, a good Scrutineer still inputs the recalls as the runners hand them in, and a recall sheet can be printed and posted in short order. Often the recalls are handed to the deck captain, and competitors can go check to see if they made the next round or not.
Now, sometimes the organizers or Chairman prefer that people be held in suspense, and so will only announce the recalls from the podium just before the event. This is not my favorite way of doing things, but some people consider it to be "traditional" and so still choose to do it this way.
You mean of the marks? Again, this depends on the organizer and Scrutineer. When I work at a comp that uses O2CM, I print out the marks at each Awards break and put them into a three-ring binder that sits at the Registration table. People can come by at any time and look at their marks. I used to tape them to the wall, but various venues did not like the tape marks being left behind, plus there was a big problem with people taking the marks down and walking off with them -- even though it explicitly states in the NDCA rule book that removing the marks like that is grounds for discipline. When I work at a comp that uses CompMgr, I don't get the marks out quite as fast, but still either I or the Scrutineer prints them as we go, and one of us puts them in the book.
I'm curious to know where you are going to comps, because once again, the comps that I have been working at are already like this. In fact, when I worked at the International Grand Ball, I had all the prize certificates printed out on IGB letterhead in advance. I gave them to the Scrutineer, and as she got the results she'd fill in the correct names on the coupons so they could be handed out as the awards were announced.
Really, cornutt, you are not asking for anything that isn't already being done by on-the-ball-people who strive to make the events they work at be as competitor-friendly as possible.
Laura
Well-Known Member
No, I never said that a $250 award was dispensable. I just said that I don't dance the Scholarships in hopes of winning the $250, or whatever the amount is. Getting the $5 or $35 coupon or the $250 check is nice, it's just that I'm not one to go picking comps based on how much money they happen to be giving out as Scholarships. I don't count on that money, I don't even think about that money.
I did say that a trophy was dispensable.
I am a bit shocked by you statement, and my reaction is "and who are you to stipulate what the prizes should be?" Look, if you don't like the awards a particular comp gives out, then don't go to it, but be aware that not everyone shares your views.
And of course the competition organizers profit from your performance. If they didn't, if they lost money on people's performances, then there would be little incentive to hold competitions. This is even true for non-Pro/Am comps like collegiate comps and all-Amateur comps. Organizers of these want to run an event and not lose money. And if they make some money, all the better. Organizers of Pro/Am comps do it as a business venture, and thus wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't generate profit. This is not to say that "they're only in it for the money," but rather a statement of fact. I mean really, Safeway isn't there for altruistic means of getting food to the general populace, they are there to make money selling food. Comps are a business. I don't have a problem with this, and in my experience I've been to very well-organized comps where I am treated well and have a good time, and thus have not ever felt "taken" by the organizers.
If there are specific comps and specific organizers that are problematic, then avoid them. But don't paint the whole system with the same brush, as there are other comps that are really well-run.
tanya_the_dancer
Well-Known Member
I would rather have a $ coupon for my single dances, especially at the comps which I am likely to visit repeatedly. I was really pleased that St. Louis Starball switched from giving out stickers to coupons for the next year's entry. The only thing I don't like about these coupons is that they're only valid for next year's comp. I would prefer them to have a shelf life of 2 or 3 years, this way I can alternate between which comps I go to and not lose these coupons. And if I win some money at the scholarship, it does offset costs, even if it is only 10-15% of what I spent to compete.
Also, touching on cornutt's point about awards, I really don't care that much about my awards in single dance events. The ones I do care about are the multi-dance events, like scholarships, and for those they usually do line-up photos and announce your names and all that recognition thing. I don't think it is possible to do more at for the single dance awards without extending competition.
Also, touching on cornutt's point about awards, I really don't care that much about my awards in single dance events. The ones I do care about are the multi-dance events, like scholarships, and for those they usually do line-up photos and announce your names and all that recognition thing. I don't think it is possible to do more at for the single dance awards without extending competition.
elisedance
Active Member
I agree entirely - the single dances are great for warm up and to try something new . But some comps they can be quite dismissive also of pro/am mulitdance events such as by skipping the line up or omitting the results from their published record. At one comp that I was at there was a field of 10 couples and a semi - but the organizers saw it fit to not only skip the line up but to not even mention the 4th to 6th placings.
syncopationator
Active Member
I don't think Elisedance has said anything wrong and she certainly does not deserve your criticisms.
The whole point of this forum is for fellow dancers to post their thoughts on a variety of topics which is exactly what she did.
The truth is that each competitor has a different motivation for entering a competition. Some do it for fun, some for the love of competiting, some for exercise, some for recognition (i.e. trophies/awards, etc), and yes, some for the prize money, among other reasons I'm sure. There is no right or wrong reason. The smart organizers understand this and find creative ways to attract entries.
Laura
Well-Known Member
That's a real shame.
I heartily suggest that you come out for the San Francisco Open next year. For the Scholarships, even the Syllabus ones, the finalists get lined up behind a curtain on the dais. Then they each get announced one at a time and walk through the curtain and down a few steps onto the floor. It is very fun that each Pro/Am team gets to make a "big entrance" like this.
When the awards are given out, the finalists are brought onto the floor, and each place is announced, and everyone lines up and does the "kiss kiss" thing while the photographer takes their picture.
I can't speak for how much money you stand to win in the Scholarship (you can find that out the web site), I do know that this organizer sometimes give vouchers for lower places rather than a check, but it's a good comp and a lot of fun. Also, since they run some Pre-Teen/Junior and Adult Amateur events in the same daytime session as the Pro/Am, there's actually a decent sized audience there to cheer the competitors on.
mamboqueen
Well-Known Member
I didn't get lined up behind a curtain and get announced in SF. Maybe they just started this? I'm actually glad it didn't happen when I was there...I'm sure I would have tripped.