Dance Sport College

[DancingMommy]

Oh yeah, and the other thing ... What happens to dance teachers after they quit teaching? For health reasons, burnout or whatever, they move on. So what happens to them if they have no degree of any sort -- lots of experience, but no degree?

Well, Dance Teacher magazine, Dance Spirit magazine and Dance magazine have devoted many many articles to what happens to dancers after their career in dance is over.

For many, they transition into teaching or choreography or dance physiology, etc. I know this applies mainly to your typical "dance" styles, but I could see how it might also apply in the ralm of ballroom as well.

For me, I'm in the process of developing products geared towards dancers (in general). I'd rather do that than spend umteen hours on my feet (and away from the kiddies). I can work from home and on my own time.

 

[pygmalion]

Hmm. I was hoping this thread would get interesting. 8) The reason I started it is because it's a complicated issue, and I think we could discuss a lot of implications, here.

In my mind, we could touch on a bunch of things -- the relative values of distance learning, the value of a technical/practical degree versus an academic one, the value of life experience, whether dancers need degrees at all, what kinds of career backup plans dancers and teachers need, if any. Lots of good stuff here.

I guess I'll tackle distance learning first. tasche is right. There are a lot of fly-by-night diploma mills out there that undermine the value of those of us who took the time to get real credentials. And then there are reputable universities, such as MIT, the University of Miami, University of Colorado, University of Florida, Purdue University, and the list goes on and on. These schools also offer distance learning, with requirements equivalent to a traditional degree. And then there are many schools in between, some accredited, some not.

To me, this is another situation where caveat emptor applies. Do the homework before deciding to pursue anything, but especially a degree. It would be a shame to waste the money on a worthless degree.

That said, I guess my next question is, do dancers and other dance professionals really need a degree? Or is professional certification enough? Anyone care to comment?

 

[Sarah]

That said, I guess my next question is, do dancers and other dance professionals really need a degree? Or is professional certification enough? Anyone care to comment?

I tend to assume that a qualification on paper indicates that a set of skills or knowledge have been tested for and found to exist in a paticular entity (could be an individual or a team of some sort). Interpreting the relevance of that qualification is not necessarily straightforward, ie what is tested may not be the same as what is claimed to be tested, which may be different again to what the general public assume is tested.....
I also think that paticularly in the US the tertiary degree is overemphasised and overvalued. For me the appropriate and relevant professional certification
means more than a degree for a degree's sake.

WRT the South African degree in question....

The question I would ask is what does the offered degree indicate over and above the dance teacher's curriculum vitae? If you were looking for a dance instructor or a coach, at what level would their holding this paticular qualification tip the balance between your hiring them over someone else?

The same question holds for their post-dance career. If you were looking to employ an older person how much weight would you attach to this degree over and above other evidence of them being a skilled dance teacher (for example the competition record of their students) or of being a competent manager (ran a commercially successful studio for a number of years) or whatever other skills you were hiring them for.

Personally, I think that giving any weight to this sort of 'qualification by portfolio' is a case of mistaking the map for the territiory. I would also be a bit suspicious of anyone who felt the need to legitimise their life/work experience in this way.

Cheers
Sarah

 

[ricodancer]

A mail order dance degree from West Africa. I wonder if it's the same people who send me the daily spam, which is always a variation on: "Dear Friend- I am former _________ (Vice President, Treasurer, ex-Dictator's girlfriend, whatever) of _________ (fill in small African nation), and I need your assistance in transferring $______________(ridiculous amount) in US dollars, by the grace of God, if you are willing, etc., etc.

Anyone else ever get these?

 

[pygmalion]

Actually, when I started this thread, I was thinking more about questions like these. See if any of this stuff piques your interest.

What role does youth and the need to capitalize on it play in keeping dancers away from university? What is the value, in or out of the dance world, of dance certification? Are there any scenarios in which a dancer, dance teacher, or studio owner might benefit from higher education? Are there fields of study that are more beneficial than others? Exercise physiology? Dance? Business? Marketing? Do young dancers today face higher standards in terms of higher education than their older counterparts? What happens to an older, undegreed dancer who chooses to make a career change late in life? Does a degree or lack of it affect entree into the dance world? How about the non-dance world?

Thoughts, anyone? And feel free to address the million questions I missed. :lol:

 

[ricodancer]

Regarding the usefulness of legitimate degrees in dance- B.A., B.F.A., M.A., M.F.A. etc. the consensus of San Francisco dance glitterati with whom I have spoken on this subject (including some who hold these degrees) is that the advantage of the degree is primarily for those seeking teaching positions, particularly at the secondary or college level. As far as achieving success as a choreographer, I think the overwhelming consensus is that it is the quality of the work, not the letters after the choreographer's name, that counts. The major adjudicated dance festival in San Francisco, Summerfest, uses committee adjudication and the name of the choreographer (and hence their education level) is not even known to the adjudicators, in order to prevent favoritism. Most of my dancers have received their most recent training in universities, but I have also auditioned dancers with university degrees in dance whom I felt were not strong enough to perform our choreography. I think college dance programs do provide structure, discipline, and hopefully build a sense of professionalism and RELIABILITY (which in my opinion equals skill and passion as an essential trait).

 

[pygmalion]

Thanks for the interesting comments, ricodancer!

The major adjudicated dance festival in San Francisco, Summerfest, uses committee adjudication and the name of the choreographer (and hence their education level) is not even known to the adjudicators, in order to prevent favoritism.

Does this imply that there is some favoritism toward those who are known to hold degrees? (No agenda in asking -- I honestly don't know.)

Most of my dancers have received their most recent training in universities, but I have also auditioned dancers with university degrees in dance whom I felt were not strong enough to perform our choreography.

Is this different than in the past? Are more and more dancers going the college route? Or is it stiill pretty much a mix?

 

[pygmalion]

Another thought. A few years ago, one of my colleague's daughters was invited to join a major ballet company as a professional dancer at age seventeen. There was a major family uproar, but they finally decided to allow her to take the opportunity, if she promised to return to college if/when her time with the ballet company ended.

This may be more pertinent with a ballerina than a ballroom dancer since bellerinas' careers seem to be so much shorter, but I think the scenario has some bearing on this discussion.

 

[pygmalion]

And another thought. At my former dance studio, the manager was a very good and shrewd business woman with twenty years dance experience. She had a high school education, and she ran the business very well. But she had some recurrent business problems. My signnificant other at the time has an MBA (plus a PhD -- stinker! :lol: ) Anyway, after a few conversations with me, he put together a pretty workable plan of ways in which she could maintain and grow her business, create visibility, create unique branding and increase customer satisfaction. Bear in mind he had no dance experience, just an MBA.

Hmm.

 

[Sarah]

And another thought. At my former dance studio, the manager was a very good and shrewd business woman with twenty years dance experience. She had a high school education, and she ran the business very well. But she had some recurrent business problems. My signnificant other at the time has an MBA (plus a PhD -- stinker! :lol: ) Anyway, after a few conversations with me, he put together a pretty workable plan of ways in which she could maintain and grow her business, create visibility, create unique branding and increase customer satisfaction. Bear in mind he had no dance experience, just an MBA.

Hmm.

My question would be how would a dance-focussed or even your plain old I-dunno-what-I'm-gonna-do-with-my-life liberal arts degree have enabled your friend to sort out her own buisness problems without the advice of a person trained specifically in that field?

Cheers
Sarah

 

[pygmalion]

Yup, Sarah. Hence my question about what fields of study for higher education, if any, would be most useful for dancers, dance teachers, and studio owners.

Is the choice of whether or not to get a degree, and if so, what kind, influenced by future career goals? Is there a degree or degree program out there that leaves options open?

 

[LindyKeya]

Brigham Young University, in Provo, UT, offers a BA in dance with an emphasis in Ballroom Dance. That's probably a much more legitimate degree, but again, what's the point?

And as far as dance degrees in general go, sometimes they can be helpful in getting a job. The University of Utah's Ballet program is very highly rated, and many alumni of that program get jobs with professional ballet companies upon graduating. By going to a top Ballet School (whether part of a university or not), I'm sure a dancer would improve his/her chances of getting a job in a professional company.

But with ballroom dance? Are there any professional companies in the US? And no dance studio would ever even consider requesting potential teachers if they have a degree in the field! :roll:

 

[KevinL]

What fields of study for higher education, if any, would be most useful for dancers,

Dance classes are the most obvious answer, of course, but I would add: physiology (The biological study of the functions of living organisms and their parts.), kinesiology (The study of the anatomy, physiology, and mechanics of body movement, especially in humans) and nutrition (The science or study that deals with food and nourishment, especially in humans)

dance teachers,

All of the above, plus "teaching"class, like an education degree.

and studio owners.

All of the above, plus business courses.

Is the choice of whether or not to get a degree, and if so, what kind, influenced by future career goals?

Future career goals? How many people (at the age where they decide to go to college or not) know what they are going to be doing ten years later? I didn't know what I would be doing when I finished college until I actually finished college. I didn't know what I would be doing when I finished my Masters in Microbiology and Molecular Genetics, until I got the degree, and 10 years later I certianly never expected to be working this hard to trade careers from scientist to dance instructor!

Is there a degree or degree program out there that leaves options open?

Lots of liberal arts degrees leave things open, but that hardly matters because what does matter is what you do with what you learned that matters. I've got a friend who was a theatre major in college, but she now runs the computer system for a major electrical utility. Another friend was a chemistry major until she switched to dance instructor. What you do to get the degree might be important, but the actual degree sometimes isn't.

Brigham Young University, in Provo, UT, offers a BA in dance with an emphasis in Ballroom Dance. That's probably a much more legitimate degree, but again, what's the point?

According to thier website the degrees also cover other specialities. From the point of view of a dancer, I can definitely see the advantage of taking 3-4 credit classes in dance. 3 credits of Bronze Standard, and 3 credits of Bronze Latin? That level of time commitment would be great for the development of a ballroom dancer, espcially if you continued through the whole series and ended up with 55(?) credit hours of dance experience.

And no dance studio would ever even consider requesting potential teachers if they have a degree in the field!

I don't understand, please explain what you mean...

Kevin

 

[pygmalion]

BYU keeps coming up in conversation. A question, then. Are there other Universities out there that have a reputable dance, dance teaching, or dance management curriculum?

 

[pygmalion]

This is cool. I should read dance magazines more often. I found a non-profit organization which specializes in helping dancers make transitions into other careers, after their dance careers end.

http://www.careertransition.org