Dancing to the music

I agree with you. The problem is that nearly all dance instruction takes place for hard cash. The customer is King, and the customer will only pay for what they think they want - which is often not would be most useful to them. I don't have an answer to that.
If you are doing it to (or at least partially) sustain a business, then there's not much choice. You must provide the customers what they are willing to spend money on, or convince them that your system will get them where they want to be (develop a market). Otherwise, you'll be out of business.
 
I think it comes down to how badly the teacher needs the income. If teaching dance is the teacher's primary personal income, or if the teacher is working for a dance "school" or otherwise employed to generate income for someone else that is certainly important. To the teacher or "school", not to the student. Students still deserve proper instruction. It is a difficult situation for the teacher to be, but surely with some creative thinking it is not an insurmountable problem.

And unlike selling a block of cheese or a piece of furniture, the customer is not always right. Students come with preconceptions and unrealistic expectations. The teacher needs to (gently) remove them by substituting other more valid ones. Regardless, there will always a drop-outs.

My current teacher teaches in a small space with small classes (and privates). She is an excellent teacher and has a large number of regular students, from beginners to highly advanced. She charges more that anyone else I've come across locally, and is worth even more. People will pay for quality instruction and keep coming back as they develop their own dance. I have nothing good to say about the "school" I first attended. It was a factory where the (now obvious) goal was to mass produce half-assed tango dancers for profit.
 
FWIW, week 3 is when I introduce the 8cb in my beginners class.

In week 1, I cover the embrace (close, of course), how to lead with the chest, and walking on the slow beat (to include side steps, and occasional pauses). In week 2 I cover the quick beat (quick quick slow), rock steps, and a little musicality. Week 3 is the cross, walking outside, the 8cb, and cross system. Weeks 4 is back ochos. Week 5 is back & front ochos. Week 6 is on the molinette (sp), and 7 is on combining the molinette with ochos. The last week (8) is preparing for the first milonga (which we attend as a class).

I'm in the middle of my second time teaching this course, so it's still too early for me to draw definite conclusions on how successful it is, but it appears to be working.

Any problems getting strangers into close embrace on the first lesson? I know I would have been uncomfortable with that.

I really like the idea of preparing the class for a milonga then taking them to one as the final lesson. Great idea! My first milonga was after our (my wife and I) classes at the tango factory ended (six weeks). The experience was something I'd really like to forget...

Good luck with your teaching program!
 
FWIW, week 3 is when I introduce the 8cb in my beginners class.

In week 1, I cover the embrace (close, of course), how to lead with the chest, and walking on the slow beat (to include side steps, and occasional pauses). In week 2 I cover the quick beat (quick quick slow), rock steps, and a little musicality. Week 3 is the cross, walking outside, the 8cb, and cross system. Weeks 4 is back ochos. Week 5 is back & front ochos. Week 6 is on the molinette (sp), and 7 is on combining the molinette with ochos. The last week (8) is preparing for the first milonga (which we attend as a class).

I'm in the middle of my second time teaching this course, so it's still too early for me to draw definite conclusions on how successful it is, but it appears to be working.

Sounds like a good plan. In my own experience, that pace is too enthusiastic, but I hope it works for you.
 
Any problems getting strangers into close embrace on the first lesson? I know I would have been uncomfortable with that.

I also am not sure how this would work. Might turn some people off right away. I actually think one of the best methods I've ever seen for beginners has been from one of my local tango groups. For the first 4 or so weeks, they don't even use a full embrace. Instead, they use the arm over arm practice hold. And they make both male and female learn both parts. By the end of the class, people are encouraged to move into the open embrace, and the next class series is close embrace.

But whatever. There are lots of paths to get to the same place.
 
Any problems getting strangers into close embrace on the first lesson? I know I would have been uncomfortable with that.
The class is advertised as being close embrace, so they know that going in. There was one woman who complained about having to swap partners, though (although it was at the start of the second class). The first time we ran this course, no one complained about swapping.

I really like the idea of preparing the class for a milonga then taking them to one as the final lesson. Great idea! My first milonga was after our (my wife and I) classes at the tango factory ended (six weeks). The experience was something I'd really like to forget...
Ditto. I've tried to remember all the (numerous) things I had problems with when starting out. One drill we did on the last class, (in the previous session), was to have them practice protecting their follower, when the bozo (played by me), cuts into their lane forcing the leader to make a quick change of plan. I was totally unprepared for stuff like this when first starting out. I also explain about the cabeceo, so the women won't think some strange guy is hitting on her when staring and nodding at her.

Good luck with your teaching program!
Thanks, I'll need it. I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to teach, but I want to get a tango community to develop in my city, and whining about the situation here didn't seem to be too successful at building a community. So until someone better comes along here, I guess it will be me and the wife doing some classes.
 
...Thanks, I'll need it. I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to teach, but it I want to get a tango community to develop in my city, and whining about the situation here didn't seem to be too successful at building a community. So until someone better comes along here, I guess it will be me and the wife do some classes.

If your greatest desire is for your students to learn, I'm sure you will do fine.

I found it was important to have some emotional support for when I got too frustrated. I also thought it was useful to get other people actively involved in building the community.
 
Thanks, I'll need it. I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to teach, but I want to get a tango community to develop in my city, and whining about the situation here didn't seem to be too successful at building a community. So until someone better comes along here, I guess it will be me and the wife doing some classes.

Know that feeling. Whining feels good short term, but there comes a time when you have to give it up and do something about it. Good for you.

Never give up never surrender :p
 
Well......how d'you know then?
Well, because I have tried for the last 3 years to do what was suggested as a good basis for beginners and I am not Argentine. I imagine if I were Argentine, my suggestion for beginners would perhaps have more sway, but it doesn't, or as mentioned, people come in with some preconceptions or expectations and rock steps, weight changes and learning body awareness and posture and musical structure aren't what they want.

The local Argentine instructors in the area teach mainly pattern or stage oriented tango or Tango as social networking. The other non-Argentine teacher in the area teaches large Nuevo movements and almost no floorcraft. I can't compete against any of that. One gives the "newest hottest stuff" the others give the "real deal", the "true Argentine experience".
 
I've taught class sessions on pausing. Some guys had a difficult time with it, and I had to insist that they would actually take a pause. They seemed to feel that if they weren't stepping they weren't dancing. I think some guys are worried that pauses are boring for their partner.

Me too.. I use a non tango piece by David Byrne which has lots of big pauses; almost like playing musical statues.
 
FWIW, week 3 is when I introduce the 8cb in my beginners class.

In week 1, I cover the embrace (close, of course), how to lead with the chest, and walking on the slow beat (to include side steps, and occasional pauses). In week 2 I cover the quick beat (quick quick slow), rock steps, and a little musicality. Week 3 is the cross, walking outside, the 8cb, and cross system. Weeks 4 is back ochos. Week 5 is back & front ochos. Week 6 is on the molinette (sp), and 7 is on combining the molinette with ochos. The last week (8) is preparing for the first milonga (which we attend as a class).

I'm in the middle of my second time teaching this course, so it's still too early for me to draw definite conclusions on how successful it is, but it appears to be working.

This sounds very like my own vague plan, but I think that I would do forward ochos first (after the 8CB), and only then introduce cross system with back ochos, but I really liked the idea of preparation for a milonga (and then attending one, together) as the culmination of the class. Could I ask you to say more about the content of that final session?
 
The answer as a teacher is surely to educate them.
If you respect the tango tradition and wish to increase/improve
the dancing pool then teach what will do that. Regrettably tango
is going the way of ballroom dancing with standardisation of hold
(not even an embrace really) and homogenisation
of steps, moves and patterns (VU).

My own experience of beginner classes is that the group will be too mixed in their knowledge/ignorance of social tango and in their expectations of what the class will deliver for the noble attempt at 'education' to stand any real chance of success.

An issue here for those of us that work in the dance industry (rather than in the tango community) is that many of the students that gravitate towards us with an interest in AT do so with preconceptions based on their experience, most probably of Ballroom or other standardised partner dances. What brought them through the door wasn't an interest in social tango (and it is obvious from what they say that they know nothing at all about the dance and its baggage), but that they watched Vincent Simone & Flavia Cacace on Strictly Come Dancing and enjoyed their demonstration Show Tangos. They will tolerate two or three weeks of 'basic steps', but will be impatient if they're not dancing ganchos by week three, and are we going to do any lifts?

Such raw material is quite challenging, but 'education' is not what they are going to pay for, but I still have studio hire to cover, and I have to eat. If they have a 'routine' by the end of 6 weeks, so that when they go to one of their general social dances and the DJ puts on one or perhaps two tango songs during the evening, they will be able to get up, and having wound the key fully, dance. If you happen to bump into them at a dance, years later, and the DJ puts on a tango song, they will still be dancing exactly the same 'routine', unless in the meantime they have invested further time and effort going to a teacher, who has taught them a 'flashier' routine. There's nothing I can do that will change them, and I'd be wasting my time even trying.

Social tango isn't the steps or moves or the Basic8 (8CB).
It's the feeling of movement in the embrace to the music
so teach that. One hour (or even less) is enough to get
new students doing so, then encourage them to listen
to the music and practice. Teaching of posture, connection
and all the possibilities will have the correct context -
that of dancing the music.

I know it isn't, but my thoughts are to try and do both simultaneously: to introduce a small basic vocabulary of tango actions, in a walking to music context, but with those actions 'standardised' into the figures which nearly 100% of tango dancers would recognise, even if they would prefer to say that their dancing of, say, a back ocho from a sidestep in cross system, before walking out to a follower's cruzada, wasn't a 'figure' but something that they had spontaneously 'improvised' (along with half the other people in the room, by some strange coincidence).

My objective would be to get my students able to dance simply around the room, linking these actions by walking, weight changes and pauses (with the beginnings of musicality in their execution). That will be enough for some, and they will never return to a higher level class, but for those that do, I would want to deconstruct the 'standardised' figures as quickly as possible, to start builidng improvisatory competence using the same basic elements (but combined in lots of new non-standardised ways), and adding additional elements, so that their vocabulary grew in pace with their ability to speak the language of tango.

Teachers concentrate too much on teaching and not on
the learning of their students.

I'm not sure that I know what you mean, but lots of people who can 'do' something to a reasonable standard believe that it is self-evident that they (or anyone else) could 'teach' it as well, and this is just not so. Teaching is a skill, and there is a fundamental requirement that you can address the whole ability range of your group of students, and that you can offer material that appeals to the whole range of learning styles. It makes me very cross (and this is not directed at you) to be 'denounced' when I say that I teach dancing. Apparently I might as well be a vending machine, dispensing dancing (and robotic dancing by numbers, too). Such an approach has nothing to do with the work of a trained, skilled and experienced teacher, and the attempts of some hobby dancers (and several tango teachers whom I have observed) to teach is laughable.

The more I dance tango,
the more I realise just how misguided (I say this because
I do feel that their intentions were genuine) my teachers
were and now my search would be for a method to get
people simply dancing as soon as possible.

We cannot tranship the old BsAs way, we don't have the
culture nor tango infrastructure for that. And as a result
we need teachers and their motivation to spread the word.
Regrettably that necessary (?) commercialisation is in itself
a big danger to a tango of the senses.

Your post quoted above encapsulates that.
But surely from being on here and what you've written
you could be different. You know it's different to ballroom
so attempt to teach it differently if teaching is what you intend
to do. Maybe don't think of it as teaching but coaching
or even coaxing!

I think your expectations of a tango teacher with a mixed beginners class is unrealistic. The wider responsibility to introduce wannabe tango dancers to the tango community has to be shared by the tango community. The teacher has a role, but it's not a one-man-responsibility. I don't have a duty to 'deliver' fully rounded tango dancers to the next milonga, taking their place, quietly with their peers, wearing their shiny new Comme Il Faut shoes, and joining in the cabeceo and being models of good floorcraft and ambassadors for the tango way. Frankly, if the tango community (or a vocal minority of the tango community) were more welcoming of newcomers, and not so up-themselves, they might notice that they haven't used the cabeceo all night, and when they're on the floor they are flailing about, in all directions, and are an absolute nuisance to the beginners trying to move steadily around the line of dance in this 'walking with embelishments' dance they have just spent good money learning.
 

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