Dancing with a new partner concerns

[Salsaonone]

Here is some thoughts..might be linear, might not...feel free to respond to any and/or all:

Ever heard the quote from your dance partner "I'm just not use to following you" or similiarly "I'm just not use to your lead"?...sometimes it doesn't even have to be said, non-verbal language speaks to it as well...As a leader, you hope that your lead is good enough/strong enough that it can transfer from the most experienced follower to the novice with whom you are showing the basic salsa step. I am wondering if, no matter how good or bad a follower is, the leader can be good enough so that any follower can follow no matter what level of dancer the follower is at. I know it takes two to dance....but as the leader I tend to take responsibility for "failed" dance attempts...even if its not me....and especially if it is....I think when dancers dance for the first time, even both experienced, there are always times when moves do not work, you just smile, laugh it off, and continue on....some leaders will continue to do fancy moves and get the follower through moves, I on the other hand, if moves are not working, tend to simplify and work on making basic steps more fun.....I don't know from the side of the follower, whether they wish to be put into moves despite themselves, or simplify and do alot of repetitive moves that the leader has previously sucessfully put them through....I tend to worry that i've been doing the basic step for most of the dance because the follower can't follow my lead, for whatever reason, and its the same basic step more or less with a turn thrown in there for prosperity...and so I worry that they are getting bored, perhaps because I think I would be if i was in their shoes....but trying more advanced moves tend to blow up, so I keep it basic...and try to allow myself not to worry about it....Also, there are times when I see a dancer who follows someone else really well, but when I dance with them, I get the quotes from the beginning...I think some dancers are use to certian leads and they might dance with the same partners all the time, so when someone else dances with them, they dont feel the same lead, so they have to get use to it....This also makes me wonder when that person is me trying to lead someone I saw be lead well, if my lead stinks...but other dancers that I have not danced with have no problems with my lead....its a tad frustrating....I think one always wants to connect and have a dance where both parties have no problems with the others lead/follow....

 

[Sagitta]

Usually if I try something and it does not work and the follower wishes to have another try she will ask me to do it again. There are those phenomenal dancers who know where they want the follower to be and where he/she actually are and how to get them where they want their partners to be... Maybe in a coupel decades I'll be like one of them.

 

[africana]

This is a great topic dancers should always be aware of

I am wondering if, no matter how good or bad a follower is, the leader can be good enough so that any follower can follow no matter what level of dancer the follower is at.

I think so too, ideally when you're in sync. It's mostly about communication both ways.
the leader should be able to send a signal and the follower should be able to receive that signal, otherwise you'll be stuck on the basic. Sometimes we have to adapt our transmitting/receiving abilities to the individual we are dancing with because of differing habits, etc. I think this is waht you mean by "I'm not used to dancing with you". you are speaking a language they haven't learned to decode yet.

And this is the main reason you see a lot of salseros using the same sorts of basic patterns and moves everywhere you go. It's essentially a protocol, a crystallized language that most schooled salseros understand. it causes some amount of distillation and reduced spontaneity, but it solves a lot of the problem of communication


In the non-ideal case the basic reason is that you're not on the same wavelength, and there are several things that prevent two people from communicating seamlessly

- different goals or focus: the couple just has differing objectives that don't mesh with either for that particular song, or in general. For example: one person wants to do lots of cool moves every second, the other is looking for connection, one person wants to reflect the music, the other wants to be a little more flashy (sometimes at all costs), and so on.

- confidence levels: sometimes the dance fails due to too much or too little expectation from either party. I generally have the best time when I go in feeling secure and unintimidated

- distractions: almost anything falls in this category for me (bad/stciky floor, people running into you, wrong clothes/shoes, people watching you )

well these are some of my initial thoughts
HTH

 

[Pacion]

Also, there are times when I see a dancer who follows someone else really well, but when I dance with them, I get the quotes from the beginning...I think some dancers are use to certian leads and they might dance with the same partners all the time, so when someone else dances with them, they dont feel the same lead, so they have to get use to it....This also makes me wonder when that person is me trying to lead someone I saw be lead well, if my lead stinks...but other dancers that I have not danced with have no problems with my lead....its a tad frustrating....I think one always wants to connect and have a dance where both parties have no problems with the others lead/follow....

Salsaonone, I think you are being a bit hard on yourself! Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. Sometimes, it just boils down to chemistry (whether that is the same thing as communication as Africana said, I don't know - personally, I wouldn't say so). As a follower, I have danced with some "amazing leads". They made their previous partners look so good, I wanted to dance with them too! :banana: Then, we had our dance, and it was a mess! :? I have also danced with "amazing leads" where the chemistry was just sizzling :lol: and we looked great.

For a lead, as long as you are trying to show off your partner, being considerate and trying to modify your lead to your partner (which will come with practice) you will be fine. At the end of the day, it is a partner dance as just as the lead has to modify for his partner, so too should the more advanced follow try to be responsive to the different lead. I say the more advanced follow as they (he or she, as I know a few guys who do dance the follow from time to time :wink: )

Usually if I try something and it does not work and the follower wishes to have another try she will ask me to do it again.

Sagitta! I do this too! :banana: asking the guy to repeat if I "missed it". As much as 99% it is the guy's fault if the girl goes wrong, sometimes it is a case of tiredness or the lead not being quite right and it is great for both of us if the move is repeated.

 

[djdude]

wow, my sentiments exactly

Thanks for posting this, I think it's a common concern. Some followers say "your lead is too light", some say, "your lead is too strong", mostly they say, "you're a great dancer!". So I try not to stress too much over it.

I admit, some nights I'm so intimidated, especially when I see men who are awesome Salsa dancers who seem to dance well no matter the partner.

But as you say, focusing on the basics, executed well, I've found most partners to be very appreciative. They would rather dance the basics with flawless execution in harmony with the music, than any complicated moves which may or may not land with a new partner.

- David

 

[Alias]

Here is some thoughts ...

I understand that's a general question in partner dancing, but I think that it is a bit different fonctions of the dance, so to go further than general points it would be nice to first focus on one (for example as we are in the salsa forum, what kind of salsa (cuban style (casino), "cross-body-lead" style (LA, P2, ET2), colombian salsa ...) would we focus first?).

Here is some thoughts ...
... I tend to worry that i've been doing the basic step for most of the dance because the follower can't follow my lead ... but trying more advanced moves tend to blow up, so I keep it basic ...

I presuppose the follower is an almost complete beginner or doesn't even know how to dance.
I would like to know more precisely about the basic step you're talking about, in "cross-body-lead style" I guess it is the corresponding basic step in place and I can't imagine doing only this one without any cross-body-lead (or any cross) (note that you can start doing "shines"), in cuban style (casino) that would not be "dile que si" but "enchuf'la" (and that is the solution because the follower will be able to do it (more or less) and this is a move with all the arms and hands combinations, where the leader can also turn) while "dile que no" is more difficult for the follower who doesn't know it.

The question of the basic step(s) and basic moves of a dance is interesting, as is the question of the basic step(s) a follower has to know before dancing.

 

[africana]

yes Pacion I was only speaking from my personal experience: I try to make a game of following as many different styles, counts (LA/NY/Cuban, on1/on2/on3/on3) and levels as possible while hiding/disguising my faults and making the best of my lead whatever his level of skill (or attractiveness :twisted: )

If I happen to have chemistry with my partner, great! but that's just icing on the cake (and I love icing ) I've experienced lots of leads that were technically sound but devoid of chemistry and although I prefer those people with whom I *click* in the real world there are also those whom I need to adjust to a little bit more, and I sometimes request repetition of moves I didn't catch the first time

of course, the basic assumption I'm making here is that both parties are on beat. If that's not the case, then it's easy to crash before you even get started, much less execute complex patterns

 

[amrimi]

There are those phenomenal dancers who know where they want the follower to be and where he/she actually are and how to get them where they want their partners to be... Maybe in a coupel decades I'll be like one of them.

My favorite leade is like that. It's really amazing, he would start dancing with a girl who doesn't even know this basic step and after a few song he makes the girl look like she hasn't done anything else for the last couple of years. He has really helped me a lot with my dancing.

I think the problem that salsaonone is having is more about dancing different style than about the leading qualities. When I started going to clubs for salsa dancing l wasn't used to dance with leads who dance a different style than me. So that would get me confused an mess up the whole dance. Now that I'm more experienced with dancing with leads who dance a different style I don't have this problem anymore most of the time.

 

[Vin]

I always say, the first dance together doesn't really count. Really it doesn't. There are times when I have an amazing connection with someone on our very first dance, I try not to expect it however.

 

[MacMoto]

I always say, the first dance together doesn't really count.

I agree, and I always appreciate guys for not writing me off after just one dance.

 

[BrookeErin]

I always say, the first dance together doesn't really count. Really it doesn't. There are times when I have an amazing connection with someone on our very first dance, I try not to expect it however.

In highschool, I used to say that the first kiss with someone was always bad. I don't say that anymore (although I do believe that people can make it better by working with eachother's styles, just like dancing).... maybe I've improved, maybe they have... but the first kiss certainly isn't always bad [this is meant to say something about dancing, a metaphor, not an attempt at flirting]

 

[Salsaonone]

In highschool, I used to say that the first kiss with someone was always bad. I don't say that anymore (although I do believe that people can make it better by working with eachother's styles, just like dancing).... maybe I've improved, maybe they have... but the first kiss certainly isn't always bad [this is meant to say something about dancing, a metaphor, not an attempt at flirting]

All you talk about is kissing... On the dance floor, off the dance floor..kissing, kissing kissing.... :wink: So what you are saying is that If I practice kissing all the time, and devote my life to it, then even when I kiss a complete novice at kissing, it can be a great experience....Sounds like a formation of a good pick up line....

I don't know..sometimes the first dance is a "feel it out" type dance, but usually it doesnt take the whole dance, in fact pretty much right at the begining, to find out if you can do more "complicated"moves or not...but the connection can still be odd...

 

[tacad]

I don't know..sometimes the first dance is a "feel it out" type dance, but usually it doesnt take the whole dance, in fact pretty much right at the begining, to find out if you can do more "complicated"moves or not...but the connection can still be odd...

I do exactly this. The only thing I would say is that leading skills take time to develop. And every time you learn a more advanced move you have to learn how to lead it with different follows. So the process never ends.

 

[tacad]

I always say, the first dance together doesn't really count. Really it doesn't. There are times when I have an amazing connection with someone on our very first dance, I try not to expect it however.

In highschool, I used to say that the first kiss with someone was always bad. I don't say that anymore (although I do believe that people can make it better by working with eachother's styles, just like dancing).... maybe I've improved, maybe they have... but the first kiss certainly isn't always bad [this is meant to say something about dancing, a metaphor, not an attempt at flirting]

:eyebrow:

 

[youngsta]

You really can't take it to heart. There are going to be dancers that just don't click no matter what. Doesn't matter how good they are, it just doesn't work. On the flip side there are people you will dance with the first time and it will feel like you've been danced with them forever. Just comes with the territory.