"Decorations" / "Embellishments" / "Interpretation"

[Light Sleeper]

Thanks Andabien and dchester - good to hear your views and experiences as leaders.

To me, "taking over the lead" is quite different from embellishments that do not change what I am leading. I try to lead a specific step (or move) along with a specific rhythm (or timing).

Yup, 'taking over the lead' diff from embellishments - however, the thread moved over into displeasure at women turning embellishments into 'taking over the lead' so it got my interest piqued.

Forced? Not in my opinion. I can usually assume the lead whenever I want to, even if I have to assert myself a bit.

that was my feeling as I said. I would like to hear the other leader's who felt they were 'forced' respond here.

I once had a partner who insisted on doing an embellishment on my right ankle every dang time I led a forward ocho to her right. It was incessant and aggravating. I didn't dance with her again.

Are you sure she wasn't playing 'footsie' and flirting with you?

Moral of the story, ladies: you never can tell. Some guys like hijacking, some guys want to be in total control, some guys like somewhere in the middle. Damned if you...damned if you don't. Until you figure out who is who and dance appropriately.

Ahhh, tango...!

Hehe! Yup!!

I was rather taken aback my the strength of feeling from the men here on the topic.

I personally only very occasionally take over the lead, and I 'test' the guy out first, if he takes up the cudgels, then I might go for it, but this is a rare event. In other words, I hint, then he gives me 'permission'. Most times, though, the urge to 'do my own thing', I take it as the god's way of telling me to go to a Northern Soul all nighter

 

[dchester]

I was rather taken aback my the strength of feeling from the men here on the topic.

I personally only very occasionally take over the lead, and I 'test' the guy out first, if he takes up the cudgels, then I might go for it, but this is a rare event. In other words, I hint, then he gives me 'permission'. Most times, though, the urge to 'do my own thing', I take it as the god's way of telling me to go to a Northern Soul all nighter

FWIW, if a follower does something that I find annoying, that doesn't mean I will avoid dancing with her. I'm aware that there are different opinions on some of this stuff, and that some teachers do say it's OK for the follower to have an "active role" (AKA take over the lead), even if it's not my philosophy.

I do tend to avoid followers if they have different philosophies from me AND they complain about things I am doing that they don't like. BTW, some followers actually know how to make constructive criticism without being rude or patronizing, but unfortunately not all have this skill.

 

[Ampster]

IMHE:

I am not stuck in the paradigm where, "I'm the lead, therefore, I'll be followed." Leading and following in tango is not as black and white as it seems. It is more dynamic, based on the skill level of the participants. There is such a thing as "Active following," where the follower will and does embellish and interpret the music to her preference.

A dynamic lead would pick up on this and assimilate it into his leading, making it a part of the whole, rather than just stick with one's own idea of a lead. It makes for a very beautiful and dynamic exchange of lead-follow. It's kinda like a real-time healthy relationship where the interaction is not strictly lop-sided in one or the other's favor. Rather, the roles are clear, but there is an interchange of interaction between the two.

It makes for a new experience every single time... even from the same follower.

 

[Angel HI]

Bravo, Amps! I am in full agreement. probably a good time to mention 'Passive Leading / Interpretation', as well. For those who might not know, ...a lead by permission rather than by action, and a follow by interpretation rather than by reaction. Amps, your second paragraph applies here, as well.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Moral of the story, ladies: you never can tell. Some guys like hijacking, some guys want to be in total control, some guys like somewhere in the middle. Damned if you...damned if you don't. Until you figure out who is who and dance appropriately.

I guess the problems I have with hijacking are twofold:

1. It's non-consensual.
If I allow time and space for interpretation, that's one thing. If my follower decides to grab that time by herself, that's not what I'm trying to do, and it disrupts my focus and my harmony.

2. It's rarely done well
Most followers can't lead well. They can't seamlessly take the lead. And finally, they can'r seamlessly transfer control back once they've finished - they just expect leaders to pick up the slack and try to restore some order to the dance.