"Decorations" / "Embellishments" / "Interpretation"

[Dave Bailey]

Whatever you call them, they are appropriate for stage or exhibition--not for the social floor. Afterall, who notices them on a crowded dance floor?

I notice when a woman embellishes her dancing. I may not notice when I'm dancing with that woman, but I definitely notice it when watching.

And you could extend that argument to all "pretty ankle" work - why bother with making your ankles form lovely shapes when your partner won't see them?

 

[Peaches]

Whatever you call them, they are appropriate for stage or exhibition--not for the social floor. Afterall, who notices them on a crowded dance floor?

I feel the greatest disadvantage is that a dancer focuses on the feet instead of feeling the music. They are worked into choreography for stage, but improvising them on the dance floor takes skill.

I disagree. Shocking, I know.

Small embellishments are perfectly appropriate for a social floor--small circles on the floor drawn while pausing, a quick cross behind or in front of the other foot, rhythmic taps. Those are all embellishments, all small movements, and all fine for social dancing.

It's not focusing on the feet to the exclusion of feeling the music. It's feeling the music throughout your whole body, right down to the tips of your toes. It's feeling the music and being moved to express it, even in stillness. It's (often) the woman taking some of the responsibility for musical expression, independent of the (usually) man, and finding ways to add her own voice to things.

 

[Angel HI]

Great post, Peaches!

And to Sam....

Originally Posted by Angel HI


....heehee. I ain't tellin'

 

[Madahlia]

Whatever you call them, they are appropriate for stage or exhibition--not for the social floor. Afterall, who notices them on a crowded dance floor?

I don't enjoy dancing on a crowded floor, and rarely have to in tango. I like having space around me - crowded floors feel claustrophobic.

I feel the greatest disadvantage is that a dancer focuses on the feet instead of feeling the music. They are worked into choreography for stage, but improvising them on the dance floor takes skill.

Having felt the music, how can a follower express what she hears? One way is through decorating with her feet. Nobody said it would be easy.

 

[Ampster]

I don't enjoy dancing on a crowded floor, and rarely have to in tango. I like having space around me - crowded floors feel claustrophobic.

You shouldn't worry about the crowded floor. It's your partner's job to make it safe for you. It's also your partner's job to lead and dance small if the floor is crowded.

If your worrying about dancing in small spaces, you're distracted from dancing, which takes away from the experience.

 

[Madahlia]

You shouldn't worry about the crowded floor. It's your partner's job to make it safe for you. It's also your partner's job to lead and dance small if the floor is crowded.

If your worrying about dancing in small spaces, you're distracted from dancing, which takes away from the experience.

It doesn't worry me, exactly, I just don't like feeling hemmed in. Especially when floorcraft is poor, which means the leaders are not making it safe!

 

[Light Sleeper]

You shouldn't worry about the crowded floor. It's your partner's job to make it safe for you. It's also your partner's job to lead and dance small if the floor is crowded.

If your worrying about dancing in small spaces, you're distracted from dancing, which takes away from the experience.

I'll echo Madahlia's feeling... not everyone is as considerate/ skilled as you clearly are, Ampster :friend: ... even if one's partner is, other people may not be, can set a girl on edge a bit from time to time, worrying about the loonies on the floor.

 

[Light Sleeper]

I don't do any adornos (Can't - no matter how many Jennifer Bratt videos I've watched) but I hope and fondly believe I do interpretation from time to time.

I would like to be able to do stuff like this. IF I could do it with excellent technique, when the music suggested it and without inconveniencing my partner by interfereing with his lead.

I don't really care for complicated leg swinging and twining where the man just has to wait while she gets it out of her system.

However, if you can make it look good and your partner doesn't mind I guess anything goes.

Hmm, how do you know the man is just 'waiting while she gets it out of her system'? Presumably he gave her space and time to do it, so why shouldn't he wait till she's finished? I take it that you feel it's not in keeping with the music.. or the focus is too much on her? Two to tango and all that?

My DP wants me to always do more twining and ardornments in general. I told him that tapping during back ochos is my signature adorno and he wasn't even aware I did it! On the other hand, I see what you're saying as complicated wrapping and twining, I feel more of a challenge, just because it's more intimate, I think, I'm a little hesitant at times as you're never sure how much opportunity the leader wants to give you, I don't want to do any 'hogging' or 'getting it out of my system'. Ochos are my baby and as long as it fits in with the timing, I can do what I want

 

[Dave Bailey]

Hmm, how do you know the man is just 'waiting while she gets it out of her system'?

Actually, that happens a lot to me.

Presumably he gave her space and time to do it, so why shouldn't he wait till she's finished?

Well, it's usually more that she's grabbed the space and time, and I just let her do so rather than wrestle her for it.

Some followers simply want to do the "fancy stuff" - lots of adorned ochos / boleos, you name it. Sometimes you simply have to go with the flow, even as a leader.

But I'd class that as "interpretation", not "embelishment / adornos".

My DP wants me to always do more twining and ardornments in general. I told him that tapping during back ochos is my signature adorno and he wasn't even aware I did it!

Well that's pretty much the entire point of adornos, isn't it? If your partner becomes aware of them, you're doing them wrong.

 

[bordertangoman]

Well that's pretty much the entire point of adornos, isn't it? If your partner becomes aware of them, you're doing them wrong.

SO the opposite of a hair-do then :lol:

 

[dchester]

Hmm, how do you know the man is just 'waiting while she gets it out of her system'?

If the leader is standing there yawning, or checking his watch.

Presumably he gave her space and time to do it, so why shouldn't he wait till she's finished? I take it that you feel it's not in keeping with the music.. or the focus is too much on her? Two to tango and all that?

You'd think, but that's not always the case. Part of this gets into different philosophies again. Some people say (like Graciela Gonzalez did last weekend) that the leader should never give the follower an opportunity to do anything other than what he is expecting her to do ("old school", as I call it). While others say that it's OK for the follower to "have a conversation" with the leader (although to me it often comes out as back leading, or even worse, an argument rather than a conversation).

Sometimes, I will "invite" an embellishment, but sometimes a follower will simply decide to "take over" for lack of a better word. Unless she is really good at it (which some followers are), I find it mostly annoying.

My DP wants me to always do more twining and ardornments in general. I told him that tapping during back ochos is my signature adorno and he wasn't even aware I did it! On the other hand, I see what you're saying as complicated wrapping and twining, I feel more of a challenge, just because it's more intimate, I think, I'm a little hesitant at times as you're never sure how much opportunity the leader wants to give you, I don't want to do any 'hogging' or 'getting it out of my system'. Ochos are my baby and as long as it fits in with the timing, I can do what I want

IMO, you are doing it right!!!

:cheers:

 

[AndaBien]

The vocabulary we are discussing makes it seem that they are things to look at. However, adornos, decorations, might be simply for the sake of dancing, whether anyone sees them or not. Some people just like to dance with their feet. One of my favorite partners is a foot-dancer, as am I, and we have quite a nice little conversation with our feet.

 

[Zoopsia59]

If the leader is standing there yawning, or checking his watch.

Its not that different from getting ready to go out in the first place...

If the leader gets a beer, picks up the remote and sits down in front of the tv saying "let me know when you're ready to go..." while you're doing your thing, you're taking too long

If by the time you are ready to go, he now ISN"T ready, and you have to wait for him to get his mind back on what the two of you were going to do, you went way past embellishing and passed over into adornification.

 

[Zoopsia59]

The vocabulary we are discussing makes it seem that they are things to look at. However, adornos, decorations, might be simply for the sake of dancing, whether anyone sees them or not. Some people just like to dance with their feet. One of my favorite partners is a foot-dancer, as am I, and we have quite a nice little conversation with our feet.

Some little adornos CAN be for the partner to feel. I do a little thing with one leader I dance with (for some reason, I can never make it work with anyone else.. it just grew naturally out of his own style and the lively feeling he gives even when moving small or not at all) I make a tiny arc forward with my free foot and touch his supporting foot. He is SUPPOSED to feel it... its like a little foot "kiss on the cheek".

However, he also knows it won't prevent me from moving in any direction and that it won't slow me down. In that regard, its no different from any other embellishment that he doesn't know about, except that he gets to feel the contact and know I've done it. And its actually pretty small and quick (since he's a milonguero close embrace dancer) and I'm not sure anyone else has ever noticed it when watching.

I don't STAY there, because he's leading me to my next step.. its a brief touch on the "quick" just like most embellishments. He usually leads a backstep or back ocho from there, so it has a nice continuous feel to it. (ie... my leg doesn't stop moving) But as I said... to make this work, the follower has to be able to move that leg quickly because you are coming from the collected position you just hit after a step and making a forward reaching adorno prior to taking a backstep. Step, collect, arc forward touch his foot, complete backstep (passing through collect of course)... all on quicks

That's alot of movement to fit in between steps without disrupting the lead.

 

[Light Sleeper]

SO the opposite of a hair-do then :lol:

*Snort* pre-cise-ly

Classic line from me "Is my hair ok?"
Response "What were you aiming for?"