Determining skill by watching

I sometimes hum with more inexperienced followers who are "thinking" about their steps too much and not listening enough to the music. With more experienced followers, I feel I can express the music with my dancing without the need for humming.
 
salthepal said:
I sometimes hum with more inexperienced followers who are "thinking" about their steps too much and not listening enough to the music. With more experienced followers, I feel I can express the music with my dancing without the need for humming.
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That's interesting. I've done something similar with students (followers) when I was trying to get them to hear the slow and quick beats of the music. While I danced with them I whispered ta ta-ta-ta (or whatever) to them so they would realize that the steps I was leading were supposed to match beats in the music.

I've also asked student leaders to do the same thing, but for their own benefit, so they would learn to make their leads fit to the beats - whichever ones they choose.
 
AndaBien said:
I also imagine that focusing is a zero sum equation. That is, the more you are to the right, the less you are to the left. If you are in the center, you're not doing either very much.
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That's an oversimplification, and depends on the exact mental processes involved. My wife wouldn't enjoy reading most of the 'neurophysiology' expressed in this thread, but she stopped dancing ages ago (and has a healthy distrust for cyber-socialising and on-line fora).

On the humming: it can be good, it can be bad. I don't mind the humming of Glenn Gould on the famous Golberg variation recordings (he actually hums a voice that's different from the voices in the score), so why would I mind people humming to the music (correctly)?
 
sixela said:
...I don't mind the humming of Glenn Gould on the famous Golberg variation recordings (he actually hums a voice that's different from the voices in the score), so why would I mind people humming to the music (correctly)?
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If he were humming while you were trying to talk to him, I think you would mind.
 
Temza said:
this is not my experience. humming, silently or not, increases my concentration on the leader and the music, places me completely in the moment and screens out all external stimuli.

we will have to agree to disagree.
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I agree with you. I know my first teacher used to hum or sing quietly deliberately--he told me I would dance differently (better) when he did so. To me, it's charming...assuming it's done relatively well. I tune in more to my partner, it feels like he's more in tune with the music...when I stop myself from humming along (because so many people seem to dislike it so intently) I actually find that (the deliberate stopping) distracting. I can hum and dance at the same time--it's two simultaneous expressions of the music...it's like I can't keep it to myself. Sometimes, I'm just moved enough that I want to hum or sing along quietly...which I can do and dance at the same time just fine...but suppressing it is distracting.
 
AndaBien said:
If he were humming while you were trying to talk to him, I think you would mind.
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But he's humming while we're both listening to the same music (and in fact, I listen to the extra one he makes while humming). He's not talking to me except through the music -- humming and all.

In other words, I'd find someone humming when I'm talking to them offensive, but they can hum just fine when I dance with 'em.

I'll bite my lips before I say anything about people trying to talk instead of humming to the music on a milonga floor...
 
sixela said:
But he's humming while we're both listening to the same music (and in fact, I listen to the extra one he makes while humming). He's not talking to me except through the music -- humming and all.

In other words, I'd find someone humming when I'm talking to them offensive, but they can hum just fine when I dance with 'em.

I'll bite my lips before I say anything about people trying to talk instead of humming to the music on a milonga floor...
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no dont bite your lips ( or do you mean your tongue?) just tell them to shaddup. Appparently Germans do..

sprechen Sie nicht, indem Sie tanzen
 
AndaBien said:
I agree with that completely. I wish more followers would just say, "Shut up and dance"!
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Do you think that will get them more dances?

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Zoopsia59 said:
I like to watch people as a couple, rather than just watching the individual doing their part. I watch to see how well the couple moves as one. It's actually rather rare to see 2 people dancing tango and truly looking like a single unit rather than someone who is sending signals and someone who is trying to catch them and respond. I had been thinking that typically I see this only in close embrace, however, I watched a couple at a milonga last weekend who were dancing open nuevo and they embodied this principle even though they were being playful and "fancy".

BOTH people need to be good dancers to pull this off, so it doesn't tell you much about the people who are good that are dancing with someone who can't pull it off. But when you see a couple moving so perfectly as one dancer, it's a safe bet that they are probably both great partners. (unless of course, they only ever dance with each other and that's how they developed this ability together... but then, if that's the case, they aren't going to dance with you anyway, so it doesn't matter)

However, some very good dancers can end up simply not meshing well with another good dancer. Also a good dancer may be dancing with someone who hasn't attained the skill of "becoming one". So in the cases where I don't have the "perfect sync" to clue me in, I look at leaders for things like Lily states in her post and in this order:

Does he look like he is safe for the rest of the dancers out there.
Does he overuse his arms or look to be "forcing" rather than leading.
Does he dance with the music or is he just moving around independently of the music.

If he passes those basic tests, I'll probably dance with him if he asks. Usually when there's someone I REALLY want to dance with, and will feel sad that I didn't dance with, I formed that desire by having danced with him, not from watching him. Until I actually dance with him, I can't be sure whether he's someone that I REALLY, REALLY don't want to miss out on (unless he's famous, and even then...). Even the leaders that other followers rave about may not turn out to be someone that makes me tango-swoon. The only way to find out for sure is to dance with someone.

When watching followers (not to dance with) I watch to see how cleanly, elegantly and precisely they execute the simplest things like walking. I don't get distracted by the number or height of embellishments. Or actually, to be more specific, if I'm noticing the embellishments that much, they probably ARE distracting... which means they don't fit the dance that well. I look at the posture and connection she seems to have, and how stable and responsive she seems to be. I find that many leaders are impressed by the wrong things when they watch followers, but actually many followers are too... they see the higher boleos and fancy wraps and think "Oh wow! She's SO good!"...

yeah... maybe she is.. or maybe she throws all that stuff in regardless of what the leader is trying to do and has no ability to alter her styling.
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Exactly how I think. But of course, I won't be able to express even 20% of it. Thanks, Zoopsia.
 
bordertangoman said:
surely that's what a tanda is for;
song 1; find the limits of her comfort zone
song 2; take her out of her comfort zone
song 3; dance out of your comfort zone.
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How about using song 1 to calibrate? For me, with a leader I never dance before, I need a little time, maybe a minute or so, to become familiar with the characteristic of his connection and movement, so that my movement can be adjusted accordingly. I think it would be true for the leader, too.
 
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