I've asked this question locally, but I'm not confident of the answers I'm getting: What (if any) are the technical differences between Swing and Lindy? I'm told they're the same, but the threads here on DF lead me to believe they aren't. I've had enough lessons to know the difference between ECS and WCS, but is Lindy a generic term, or a specific dance? While we're at it, what about Jitterbug, Jive, and Peabody?
Differences between Swing and Lindy?
- Thread starter JohnK
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Flat Shoes
New Member
Lindy is the original type of swing, from which all other types of swing has derived.
Today Lindy is one type of swing, alongside with WCS, ECS, Jive, Boogie Woogie and others.
Since all the other types of swing are refinements of Lindy Hop, with focus on different aspects of the dance, Lindy is the type of swing which has the most variations in steps and style.
I don't have to time to start comparing dance by dance right now, I leave that to someone else. Besides, since I live in Europe, where ECS and WCS is next to nonexistant, I'm not the right guy anyway. You should check the two threads: Swing Overseas, and Define Jitterbug.
Today Lindy is one type of swing, alongside with WCS, ECS, Jive, Boogie Woogie and others.
Since all the other types of swing are refinements of Lindy Hop, with focus on different aspects of the dance, Lindy is the type of swing which has the most variations in steps and style.
I don't have to time to start comparing dance by dance right now, I leave that to someone else. Besides, since I live in Europe, where ECS and WCS is next to nonexistant, I'm not the right guy anyway. You should check the two threads: Swing Overseas, and Define Jitterbug.
rembrandt44
New Member
lindy is the original style of swing
Lindy hop is the original Style of swing, as danced in the Savoy ballroom in Harlem-NY, which began in the late 1920's. All other swing styles came out of it. ECS, jitterbug, jive are basically Lindy hop with the eight count rhythms stripped out. WCS, smooth lindy, Hollywood style lindy are all derivatives of the original lindy hop. Nowadays the term Lindy Hop is often used as a generic for all the styles of swing that use an 8 count basic, except for perhaps WCS. So to be specific the orginal style of the Lindy Hop is now often reffered to as Savoy style Lindy.
Lindy hop is the original Style of swing, as danced in the Savoy ballroom in Harlem-NY, which began in the late 1920's. All other swing styles came out of it. ECS, jitterbug, jive are basically Lindy hop with the eight count rhythms stripped out. WCS, smooth lindy, Hollywood style lindy are all derivatives of the original lindy hop. Nowadays the term Lindy Hop is often used as a generic for all the styles of swing that use an 8 count basic, except for perhaps WCS. So to be specific the orginal style of the Lindy Hop is now often reffered to as Savoy style Lindy.
Re: lindy is the original style of swing
Not to digress into one of those endless terminology debates, but I'd take issue with there being a single "original style of Lindy Hop". Folks I know who've worked with some of the original Savoy dancers are consistent in stating that there were a variety of "Savoy styles".
My impression has been that the Rhythm Hotshots, when they did their archaeology, constructed a particular style based on what they saw in those old films and got from Frankie Manning, and that, more or less, is what gets labelled "Savoy style" today.
rembrandt44 said:
Not to digress into one of those endless terminology debates, but I'd take issue with there being a single "original style of Lindy Hop". Folks I know who've worked with some of the original Savoy dancers are consistent in stating that there were a variety of "Savoy styles".
My impression has been that the Rhythm Hotshots, when they did their archaeology, constructed a particular style based on what they saw in those old films and got from Frankie Manning, and that, more or less, is what gets labelled "Savoy style" today.
Um... Kurt Lichtmann is really not someone you should quote to prove your point. Not quite as bad as refering to Sonny Watson but close.
Sure there were as many "styles" at the Savoy as there dancers on any given night, but there were some definite qualities/elements that they had in common. The Savoy was the home of Lindy Hop. It was danced at all the Ballrooms in Harlem, but just about everyone acknowledged that the Savoy was the place to be.
You could tell where someone danced by their style. Even today you can get a pretty good idea of what city someone is from or what club is there main place by how they dance. The same was not only true of the Savoy, but since it was one of the earliest pioneers, a case could be made to say its style was the first. I'm not sure I'd say the original since that implies that teh other styles derived from it rather spontaneously developing though.
Sure there were as many "styles" at the Savoy as there dancers on any given night, but there were some definite qualities/elements that they had in common. The Savoy was the home of Lindy Hop. It was danced at all the Ballrooms in Harlem, but just about everyone acknowledged that the Savoy was the place to be.
You could tell where someone danced by their style. Even today you can get a pretty good idea of what city someone is from or what club is there main place by how they dance. The same was not only true of the Savoy, but since it was one of the earliest pioneers, a case could be made to say its style was the first. I'm not sure I'd say the original since that implies that teh other styles derived from it rather spontaneously developing though.
swinginstyle
New Member
For me, swing is swing. Lindy is looked upon as the granddaddy, from which other vintage swing dances derived from. Then again, we have people call it swing only if you dance to music that swings, thus eliminating the stereotypical definition of west coast swing, that it's danced to non-swing music. However, like I said above, for me, swing is swing.
Flat Shoes
New Member
Whether WCS actually swings or not (it don't :twistedswinginstyle said:
is not so important. It's still part of the swing family. :banana:swinginstyle
New Member
Flat Shoes said:Whether WCS actually swings or not (it don't :twistedswinginstyle said:
How appropriate that the devil eyes are there. Now, are you talking about making the dance swing or the music swing? From taking several classes from Skippy Blair, it seems that you can make a dance swing using rolling counts instead of dancing straight counts. On the other hand, much of west coast swing, as it is danced currently, is danced to non-swing music. However, there are exceptions, as some westies do enjoy dancing west coast swing to slower 'swing' tempos. Or would you have believe that west coast can't be danced to traditional swing music?
Flat Shoes
New Member
Was talking about the dance, yes. In my opinion, swing music is swinging. It's in the rythm and the feel of the music. It's literally a periodic swing in the music. If you dance to swing music, but don't move your body to the swing in the music, then you're not swinging. Nothing wrong with that though, it's just a different way of dancing.
To me, the swing in the music translates to the bounce in the dance. Not necessarily a lot of bounce, but a relaxed bounce that answers to the swinging rhythm. Since WCS doesn't have bounce, I consider it a non-swinging swing dance. But I don't do WCS (took a couple of lessons, watched a few videos, read about it here and there, that's it), and if Skippy, who I presume are a skilled westie, tells you otherwise, forget about me, and listen to him. (How many commas can you cram into one sentence?) Or make up your own opinion!
To me, the swing in the music translates to the bounce in the dance. Not necessarily a lot of bounce, but a relaxed bounce that answers to the swinging rhythm. Since WCS doesn't have bounce, I consider it a non-swinging swing dance. But I don't do WCS (took a couple of lessons, watched a few videos, read about it here and there, that's it), and if Skippy, who I presume are a skilled westie, tells you otherwise, forget about me, and listen to him. (How many commas can you cram into one sentence?) Or make up your own opinion!
swinginstyle
New Member
More info on Skippy Blair, a she, can be found at http://www.swingworld.com Anyway, back to the bounce. Is it necessary to translate the feel of the music into a bounce?
Purr
Forum Master
What exactly is the peabody? I've seen a few dancers, mainly older, perform it in competition. The dance itself didn't look anymore difficult than the rest of the smooth dances. The music also interests me, one peabody song I recognized is the cantina theme from the original Star Wars movie.
Flat Shoes
New Member
swinginstyle said:
In order to dance well, no! In order to swing, I think so.
Look I'll say it. Skippy's knowldge of what makes a swing dance is just wrong. PERIOD. She knows a lot about WCS but she doesn't know a lot about Lindy Hop, nor does she know a lot about numerous other swing dances. The bounce is not a defining element in swing dancing... having that heart beat of body movement that matches the music is. Westies call it a pulse and all the great ones have it.
Is West Coast Swing a swing dance? I'd say... but what you see people calling WCS these days is not necessarily that actual dance. IF you aren't swinging the rhythm in your body as well as your feet it is anot a swing dance.
This "rolling count" is the way it is most often talked about completely without merit in whetyher someones dance swings. Swing has a very specific rhythmic definition that simply counting by using a "rolling count" does not meet. You have to under stand that swinging music has an ebb and a flow, it pushes and pulls the beat, moving around a metronome rather than hitting right with one. Your footwork and body movement needs to do the same... WITH the music.
In a word Swing is a genre, of which Lindy Hop is the oldest continuousely danced form of. West Coast Swing and East Coast Swing are two of the larger forms of Swing in the US and they are both direct descendants of Lindy Hop.
The peabody is a non-swing dance, danced to swinging music (usually big-band swing) it is the precursor I believe to the quickstep. It is (stereotypically) a fast paced dance that stays in a variant ballroom closed position and uses a single time step where the partners move facing each other through the lind of dance, executing grapevines and a twisting step using compression and tension where the bodies are in an exagerated offsetposition and then they twist into a reverse ofset position.
Is West Coast Swing a swing dance? I'd say... but what you see people calling WCS these days is not necessarily that actual dance. IF you aren't swinging the rhythm in your body as well as your feet it is anot a swing dance.
This "rolling count" is the way it is most often talked about completely without merit in whetyher someones dance swings. Swing has a very specific rhythmic definition that simply counting by using a "rolling count" does not meet. You have to under stand that swinging music has an ebb and a flow, it pushes and pulls the beat, moving around a metronome rather than hitting right with one. Your footwork and body movement needs to do the same... WITH the music.
In a word Swing is a genre, of which Lindy Hop is the oldest continuousely danced form of. West Coast Swing and East Coast Swing are two of the larger forms of Swing in the US and they are both direct descendants of Lindy Hop.
The peabody is a non-swing dance, danced to swinging music (usually big-band swing) it is the precursor I believe to the quickstep. It is (stereotypically) a fast paced dance that stays in a variant ballroom closed position and uses a single time step where the partners move facing each other through the lind of dance, executing grapevines and a twisting step using compression and tension where the bodies are in an exagerated offsetposition and then they twist into a reverse ofset position.