Direct your teacher or let your teacher direct you?

I dance International style, but I have found that Waltz highlights core issues that exist in all my Ballroom dances (and I believe that's common for most people). The Latin dances are less consistent, but Rumba offers some similarity there. I've found that my coaches (I have one for Standard and one for Latin) know what they'd recommend I work on within the first eight bars of my dancing-even the first time I met them. If I were a lot more advanced this might not hold, but as an intermediate-ish dancer, core issues cross dances, and they are very obvious to a good coach. Your Pro will know too, and depending on the coach-pro relationship, the pro may or may not want to suggest this. My Pro will say "I bet coach will work on X" and sure enough, we do.
 
I dance International style, but I have found that Waltz highlights core issues that exist in all my Ballroom dances (and I believe that's common for most people). The Latin dances are less consistent, but Rumba offers some similarity there.

I think the same is true in Smooth and Rhythm. We work A TON on both Waltz and Rumba with coaches for that reason.
 
In ballroom dance, the most basic of skills are often the most ignored—like the Walk, Rise and Fall, and CBM—and just as often cause the most grief because they are critical skills as it turns out. A visiting teacher is often a good objective third pair of eyes that can tell you what fundamental skills you need to be strengthen. These are things your teacher can easily miss since they are busy dancing with you.

For a beginner thru intermediate dancer, I would recommend examining 2-4 figures that incorporate as many of these core skills. The lesson flits by so quickly that you may not get to the fourth figure. Working on core skills still surprises me how much it can improve one's dancing.

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Pro & I have our first lesson with an outside visiting coach next week. I have no showcase routine or comp amalgamation to show her, and I don’t have any specific questions to ask. So...what would be the best use of our time with her:
  1. Focus on my best dance (waltz) so she can help me take it to the next level;
  2. Focus on my worst dance (FT) so she can help me make it tolerable;
  3. Dance short demos of all 7 styles we’ve worked on so far, and let her choose what to focus on;
  4. Other-please-specify?

1 and 2.
 
My personal preference is to show them the dance that I am most uncomfortable with, and asking for help with that dance. Pro and I discuss this and agree in advance of the lesson. I usually get a lot of valuable insights and ideas that can be applied to other dances.
As it happened, this is exactly what we did. Pro & I talked ahead of time & he wanted us to work on foxtrot with Coach. So at her visit, the 3 of us first talked for several minutes, then Pro & I danced some foxtrot steps for about 90 seconds, until she stopped us & said, “ok - I know exactly what we’re going to focus on.”
In ballroom dance, the most basic of skills are often the most ignored <snip> A visiting teacher is often a good objective third pair of eyes that can tell you what fundamental skills you need to be strengthen. <snip>
For a beginner thru intermediate dancer, I would recommend examining 2-4 figures that incorporate as many of these core skills. <snip> Working on core skills still surprises me how much it can improve one's dancing.
Sure enough, the lesson flew by, and we covered only 2 things. But they were important things, both of which will apply across all Smooth styles: CBM and movement of the free arm on the open figures.

I recorded parts of the lesson and transcribed some of the discussion:

(Pro) “If something arises we immediately address it. We’re very dancesport orientated, we’re not much social, kind of...she’s really interested in competition – in that direction….we like techniques, we like footwork, not so much on learning new steps.”

(Pro) “I gave her a gliding/balancing exercise [take long back step, then stop with front foot balanced on heel, back foot balanced on ball/toe] yesterday - “
(me) “- and I’m going to practice it 2000 times a day - “
(Pro) “- and she will, too.”

(Coach) “This is stuff…trust me …you’ve been dancing only a couple months? I usually give it to people a little bit later on, but because he told me how your brain works, I want you to know it and practice it.” [She was talking about CBM: turn L hip towards the back as R leg begins long backwards step; turn R hip towards the back as L leg begins long backwards step. This seemingly tiny thing made so many visible improvements to the basic step: a more appealing line of the whole body, better angle of back foot (not turned out at all), easier connection with partner, better balance.]

(Coach) “I can teach you to do pretty things with your arms, and we WILL get to that later, but this is more important – this is like building a house. It’s the foundation.”
(Pro) “That’s exactly what I tell her...but I mean look – it’s not everybody is doing the same, you see – and some people, unfortunately, yes they need arms more, because they can’t – physically they cannot do more – “
(Coach) “But you can. I saw you move…it’s just, to me – you’re not moving enough for your abilities. That’s why I’m breaking it down so you can understand the mechanics.”

(Coach) (to me) “Did you feel that?” (to Pro) “That was different, right?”
(Pro) “Yes! the better connection, the movement…just better overall.”
(Coach) “After only a few minutes. So bravo. I’m not worried. It will come – it’s already there.”

(Coach) “I think you’re also visual. As soon as I’m showing you, you’re seeing it. So let me show you this.” [demonstrated UAT and related steps with lovely, graceful arm styling... #Icouldwatchherforhours]

As always, I’m a tad skeptical about believing compliments from someone I’m paying; but it’s still nice to receive them (and I do accept some of what she said as probably true).

Conclusion: I see why you guys like outside coaching sessions so much. It was much more helpful than I expected from a 40-minute lesson with a total stranger.
 
That same outside coach is coming back in mid-July. I signed up for another session with her & Pro, since the first one was so helpful. Pro says this time we’ll work on a rhythm dance, probably rumba.
It is really helpful to have an outside coach working with you over time. I had a lot of outside coaching, some of the more famous people would come in and we would have a lesson and they were helpful, but they never saw me as a student again. (mostly I see them again when they are judging) But, the coaches that came in several times a year were the most helpful. They saw me regularly, and could see the changes. They knew my weakness and helped me fix them. One quick run of a dance and we got right to work. (Also, could discuss results of previous comp, including ones they were judging) They knew me and it makes a difference.
 
That same outside coach is coming back in mid-July. I signed up for another session with her & Pro, since the first one was so helpful. Pro says this time we’ll work on a rhythm dance, probably rumba.
Our second session with her (last week) was equally fun, and FELT like it was effective at the time, but in hindsight I think neither session was as great as I originally believed.

The 2 things we worked on in our first session have turned out to be things that Pro finds not very important for where I am in my dance journey now. The CBM/hip stuff in foxtrot is great, he says, but not what we need to focus on currently (so he doesn't reinforce it, and in fact when I tried to do it on my own, he said "don't worry about that right now. It's distracting you"). And the lovely arm gestures she showed me? He has changed them around again, so I'm incorporating her suggestion less than 25% of the time, and using my arms the way Pro wants me to instead.

As for the recent rumba coaching session with her, it was fun bcs Pro is more energetic in rhythm styles, and the coach was very complimentary of my skills - even more so than last time (and she was pretty effusive that time) - "oh my god! you're a natural Latin dancer! you look like a smooth dancer but wow, look at you move! this is so great I don't have much to say!" Please. As if. She had LOTS to say, as of course she SHOULD, as I'm still a beginner. I'm not bad, but I'm inexperienced, and I'm certainly not a "natural" anything (not even a natural blonde, FFS). Lay off the overblown praise, please. :rolleyes:

We worked on how to use my sides and chi chis together with my hips and arms, since I do fine from the waist down ("what amaaaaaazing footwork! and girl, your hips have got it goin' on!"), but since my torso and arms are wooden, it spoils the effect. (And I do mean wooden. Like, my ribcage is apparently made of stiff wooden slats that don't bend. IFP and I have worked a bit on some ribcage opening/closing/stretching exercises, but I'm still pretty tight in that area. Hence my questions in the other thread about hot yoga & gyrokinesis.) When the coach demonstrated what she meant, it looked amazing - I gather HER ribcage is made of elasticized rubber, rather than wood. She can independently move each rib forward, backward, sideways, or spin it in circles, while simultaneously doing other things with other ribs (well, that might be a slight exaggeration).

She then completely rechoreographed a pattern that Pro does a certain way, and we wasted a lot of time trying to learn it her way. I say "wasted," bcs as soon as she left, we went back to doing it his way (even though I told him that HER way is more eye-catching and I prefer it).

Pro had not worked with her before our 2 coaching sessions. I believe last month was her first time visiting our studio. She didn't give HIM any personal feedback at all - just used him to demonstrate to me what she was saying. It definitely felt like a lesson just for me, with Pro's involvement limited to being a prop partner, neither a co-teacher nor a co-student.

Each session cost $195 for 40 minutes, plus I had to use my prepaid lessons with Pro. :meh:

At this stage in my progress, and given the uncertain future of comps, and using a coach that my pro doesn't know, my conclusion is: NO WAY; NOT AGAIN. This could change, obviously, if a visiting coach might be one of my judges at an upcoming scheduled comp, and/or if my pro knew the coach and knew what to expect and KNEW the session would be worthwhile (and/or if I inherited a couple million dollars and just wanted to travel around and collect compliments from dance coaches all over the world).
 
We worked on how to use my sides and chi chis together with my hips and arms, since I do fine from the waist down ("what amaaaaaazing footwork! and girl, your hips have got it goin' on!"), but since my torso and arms are wooden, it spoils the effect. (And I do mean wooden. Like, my ribcage is apparently made of stiff wooden slats that don't bend. IFP and I have worked a bit on some ribcage opening/closing/stretching exercises, but I'm still pretty tight in that area. Hence my questions in the other thread about hot yoga & gyrokinesis.) When the coach demonstrated what she meant, it looked amazing - I gather HER ribcage is made of elasticized rubber, rather than wood. She can independently move each rib forward, backward, sideways, or spin it in circles, while simultaneously doing other things with other ribs (well, that might be a slight exaggeration).

I have the same issue. Bottom half, great. Top half, not moving (at least not in Latin/rhythm dance context - free style hip hop is a whole other story). We are working on that.


Each session cost $195 for 40 minutes, plus I had to use my prepaid lessons with Pro. :meh:

I appreciate that folks are publicly quantifying this. Slight soapbox tangent, but all the secrecy around money is one of the things that allows so much inconsistency and inflated pricing to happen. I've generally paid around $150 for a coaching (+use one private lesson for pro's time). The most I ever paid was $300, for someone whose name gets dropped ad nauseum. I'd say 2/3 of that was for the bragging rights.

At this stage in my progress, and given the uncertain future of comps, and using a coach that my pro doesn't know, my conclusion is: NO WAY; NOT AGAIN. This could change, obviously, if a visiting coach might be one of my judges at an upcoming scheduled comp, and/or if my pro knew the coach and knew what to expect and KNEW the session would be worthwhile (and/or if I inherited a couple million dollars and just wanted to travel around and collect compliments from dance coaches all over the world).

This makes me sad, because I've had a lot of great outside coaching, but it makes sense given how things played out for you. My rule is that an outside coach gets one shot - if I don't like the session, never again. I wouldn't go back to a restaurant where I paid $100+ for meal I didn't like, why would I do that for dance. They should know the stakes (steaks? omg I'm hilarious) are high. There's one that comes to our studio periodically who did a craptastic job of choreographing a salsa Showcase for us years ago - the first 20 seconds was my instructor dancing around me while I watched, wtf - that I completely undid and re-choreographed that section myself. I get asked every time, told "he's so good at [something something]" - nope, I just repeat the salsa choreo story. Not unless it's free. That usually shuts down the convo immediately.

Anyways, back to your situation. I agree about putting a hiatus on any more coaching given the uncertainty of future events right now. For me personally, I would refuse a coaching with any one I don't know at this point. Someone I've worked with in the past and love (there are a few that come to mind), I would agree to right now. But no tryouts.
 
My rule is that an outside coach gets one shot - if I don't like the session, never again.
Sigh...but I DID like the first session. I raved about it. It took a couple weeks for me to realize that Pro wasn't giving it much weight, and then to accept that we weren't going to incorporate what she had told us.

But I still would have signed up for a second session with her, since it was a totally different style, and my thinking would have been "even if the first foxtrot session didn't have long term benefits (or at least none that I can yet recognize), this second session will be in rumba so it might be invaluable to work with her this time."

Although, if I had more experience, I would have been much more thorough with Pro when asking questions about the coach before signing up. I basically said, "do you think I should?" and he said, "yeah, you should try it," and that was it. :rolleyes: Live and learn.

And OK, I want to defend the outside coach. She's an excellent dancer, a skillful teacher, and she DID what she was paid to do. It's not her fault that I didn't get the full benefit from her coaching that I would have hoped - the blame (if any) for that falls to my pro. And she DID point out some specific problems that need work (e.g., need to use CBM in foxtrot, need better use of arms in both dances, need to work "the girls" for proper Latin movement). Granted, I wouldn't have paid $195 x 2 just to be told "here are 3 things you should work on," but it's not like we sat there & played card games for 40 minutes.

It was a good learning experience for lots of reasons.
 

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