Divisions, comps, and moving up

Misspendragon

Misspendragon

Forum Master
I had a talk with both studio managers and Pro regarding comps, moving from silver to gold, and my goals. The meeting was their initiative and except for needing to sacrifice some of my lesson time, I didn't mind it at all.

I told them I would like to get to open gold without delay, but to get there by earning it; and explained that by earning it I meant that I perform better with each comp (I'm improving), and that I place relatively well. I asked for dancing at the Gateway Dancesport Championship and/or the New York Dance Festival first in gold, because after Empire, USDC, and Paragon I will have several months to prepare with the new routine. I would like to do both comps for different reasons and asked for both well in advance, hopefully they will happen and in closed gold.

They want me to place 1st in four comps with a final only and/or in the top 3 with a semifinal before I move up to closed gold and offered that we sit down again after Paragon and talk. I agreed to that.

In practical terms this means that I need two more comps with a final in which I place 1st OR two more comps with a semifinal in which I place top 3. Now, USDC I consider out of my reach as far as that goal (which is NOT to say I won't do my absolute best to win it, of course) which leaves Empire and Paragon. Since it's doubtful I could win either, I'm now praying for a semifinal in each.

I consider all this relatively fair, even if 'improvement' cannot be measured simply in winning, therefore I wish the requirement was more like 'show marked improvement from one comp to the next in technique, commitment, performance, and self-confidence' and maybe 'place top 2 in a comp with a final only and place in top 4 with a semifinal,' which allows for some wiggle room at least, but I can live with the rules. I hope they will show some flexibility and will still be happy if I place let's say 4th at USDC, if that happens (if I even make the final), that's all.

On the positive side, at the end I honestly told all three of them that I felt rather hurt by the "if you don't like it you can leave" comment that was made last time, and the studio manager apologized and reassured me that it won't happen again. I appreciated how quickly and sincerely she acknowledged that the comment was "unprofessional" (her word), it really helped me to trust her and our dancing process more.

The only real downer this week is the fact that I've just gotten my first-time-ever irregular period, which given my age (and the fact that it was preceded by me sweating through the sheets at night which just never happened to me before except when I had COVID), officially marks my entering perimenopause. I know the massive hormonal changes and fluctuations will impact my dancing in various ways (stamina, bone density, muscle mass loss, etc.) so I'm a bit bumped out by this, but I guess I will just have to train even harder, that's all.
 
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What is "open seating risers" at USDC for $70? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to get the Front Row 5-10 seats for the extra 25 bucks ($95) to spectate the Friday and Saturday evening (I won't buy the 200 dollars tickets, Front Row 1-4).
 
Misspendragon said:
What is "open seating risers" at USDC for $70? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to get the Front Row 5-10 seats for the extra 25 bucks ($95) to spectate the Friday and Saturday evening (I won't buy the 200 dollars tickets, Front Row 1-4).
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I will definitely spend the extra money to buy table seating to spectate for the professionals at USDC, if I decide to go watch this year. Last year I bought open riser seating. The seats were on the side, and quite far away from the edge of the ballroom floor because the ballroom is huge. There were at least 2 rows of tables and some walkway space were in front of the riser seats. I couldn't see anything very well. I ended up standing behind the table seating in front of the video cameras for the entire evening (and it was a long night....). Lots of people were standing there, so you had to get someone to hold your place if you went to the bar or the bathroom. It was not comfortable.

I will budget for the Front Row 1-4, for sure for the one night I'll be spectating, likely for Pro Smooth. I'd better get on reserving those tickets.

In looking at the ticket order form, it looks like the front row tickets are for the tables closest to the ballroom floor. I'm assuming seats 1-4 are the first and second rows at the tables, and 5-10 are those seats at the middle and end of the first row of tables.

I personally would not spend the extra money to buy a table seat for the session that I dance, unless it was important to my pro. I am ok parking myself away from the ballroom floor on a riser for that.
 
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joy said:
It’s weird saying someone has to place first or top 3 when all that depends on your competition. It’s almost an incentive to go to smaller comps if you want to move up a level.
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They might be as concerned about the psychological effect on the student as about objective quality of dance.
 
Warren J. Dew said:
They might be as concerned about the psychological effect on the student as about objective quality of dance.
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If someone gave me some criteria regarding comp placements for advancement, the effect on me would be...
tv land lol GIF by nobodies.
 
singndance said:
I will definitely spend the extra money to buy table seating to spectate for the professionals at USDC, if I decide to go watch this year. Last year I bought open riser seating. The seats were on the side, and quite far away from the edge of the ballroom floor because the ballroom is huge. There were at least 2 rows of tables and some walkway space were in front of the riser seats. I couldn't see anything very well. I ended up standing behind the table seating in front of the video cameras for the entire evening (and it was a long night....). Lots of people were standing there, so you had to get someone to hold your place if you went to the bar or the bathroom. It was not comfortable.

I will budget for the Front Row 1-4, for sure for the one night I'll be spectating, likely for Pro Smooth. I'd better get on reserving those tickets.

In looking at the ticket order form, it looks like the front row tickets are for the tables closest to the ballroom floor. I'm assuming seats 1-4 are the first and second rows at the tables, and 5-10 are those seats at the middle and end of the first row of tables.

I personally would not spend the extra money to buy a table seat for the session that I dance, unless it was important to my pro. I am ok parking myself away from the ballroom floor on a riser for that.
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Thank you! I don't want to spend 400 dollars on tickets Friday and Saturday night, so I think I will settle for the second-best seats, the 5-10 Front Row seats. They are less than half than the 1-4 seats but barely more than the Second Row and Open Seating Risers seats.

For my event, I will get free tickets from studio, so that's taken care of.

Thank you for the clarification!
 
joy said:
It’s weird saying someone has to place first or top 3 when all that depends on your competition. It’s almost an incentive to go to smaller comps if you want to move up a level.
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Yes, I hear you. I mean, what odds do I have to win USDC??? Or even Empire. Given my experience level and the fact that I'm at the very outer edge of my age category (and I sure moved better at 36 than I do now, even if I hate to admit it), very little. If there will be only a final, I would have to win for the comp to count. Still, I'm excited about going to both comps so I will try to be okay with the rule. I'm hoping that even if I don't win them, with the biggest comps the studio will be willing to be a bit flexible as long as I dance and place well.
 
Mengu said:
If someone gave me some criteria regarding comp placements for advancement, the effect on me would be...
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I've heard of few cases of advancing out of a competitive level without having done well in that level. I certainly didn't, except once when switching styles, and in my case the restriction was self imposed - and I was much quicker to advance in competitive levels than most people.

I think it's in the studio's interest to have the student feel like a winner a few times before advancing, so they can survive a few disappointments if they do poorly at the next level, before considering giving up ballroom or switching studios.
 
Warren J. Dew said:
I've heard of few cases of advancing out of a competitive level without having done well in that level. I certainly didn't, except once when switching styles, and in my case the restriction was self imposed - and I was much quicker to advance in competitive levels than most people.

I think it's in the studio's interest to have the student feel like a winner a few times before advancing, so they can survive a few disappointments if they do poorly at the next level, before considering giving up ballroom or switching studios.
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Yes, I think it's reasonable to expect students to do well before moving up. I also think that self-confidence isn't so predictably tied to placement and achievement, and that insisting on coming out first perhaps adds a lot of unnecessary pressure. Luckily, I'm quite competitive and do well with pressure, however some people might feel differently.

Goals and rules are important. So are flexibility and the freedom to grow at one's own terms.
 
Misspendragon said:
Yes, I think it's reasonable to expect students to do well before moving up. I also think that self-confidence isn't so predictably tied to placement and achievement, and that insisting on coming out first perhaps adds a lot of unnecessary pressure. Luckily, I'm quite competitive and do well with pressure, however some people might feel differently.

Goals and rules are important. So are flexibility and the freedom to grow at one's own terms.
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I do think it is good to have the student prove they can master their current level before moving up. However, to expect that a student wins, or comes in the top 3 several times strikes me as being a little unrealistic, depending on the competition who shows up at any given competition. Some of my dear ballroom friends are really really good, and they do not always make the final at their events, much less come in the top three or win. Does that mean they are not good enough to be dancing at an open level? Not in my book. There are several long time competitors who are excellent dancers and are hard to beat.

I hope your studio does not hold hard and fast to these rules, but can take into consideration the competition and move you along as you deserve.
 
singndance said:
I do think it is good to have the student prove they can master their current level before moving up. However, to expect that a student wins, or comes in the top 3 several times strikes me as being a little unrealistic, depending on the competition who shows up at any given competition. Some of my dear ballroom friends are really really good, and they do not always make the final at their events, much less come in the top three or win. Does that mean they are not good enough to be dancing at an open level? Not in my book. There are several long time competitors who are excellent dancers and are hard to beat.

I hope your studio does not hold hard and fast to these rules, but can take into consideration the competition and move you along as you deserve.
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I guess we will see. I agree with you, as I outlined above. I want to see that I'm getting better in terms of my technique, self-confidence, performance, and placement, but I don't place as much emphasis on winning as my studio does. I'm hoping that the rule of needing to win is more of a guideline than an absolute rule, because to win or place in the top three at USDC or Empire would be very difficult. For now, I'm just concentrating on the comps and block all the noise (like I have to win or else I won't be able to move up etc.), and I will cross the 'advancing' bridge when I get there. I'm not ready to move up yet for sure, and I don't know how I will feel after Empire, USDC, and Paragon, so I don't see the point worrying about all this right now. I love dancing and getting ready for comps, I love the visceral experience of comps and testing myself against my own limitations, that's what matters to me. The rest is irrelevant.
 
I think it depends on your goals, if you’re looking to be one of the top pro-am dancers in the country, this might make sense to me, but otherwise, I’m really happy that I dance at a studio without these hard and fast rules. I only budget to do 2 comps a year and the discussion as to when to move up was between myself and my instructor, with a firm understanding that I will probably continue to do well in proficiencies but be at the bottom of the pack for the single dances - which was fine for me, I just wanted to get into silver smooth beautiful movement across the floor.
 
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