In a lesson with one of my former dance teachers, the goal was to introduce me to silver ECS. The only problem was that he kept needing to refresh his memory on the step patterns. None of his other students was at silver level. In my observation, the vast majority of ballroom dance students never make it beyond bronze at the most. So do dance teachers really need to know silver and above, if it's unlikely they'll have many, if any, silver students? If so, why?
Do dance teachers need to know silver+?
- Thread starter pygmalion
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Sagitta
Well-Known Member
It is the same for teaching any subject. The more versed the teacher the more tools he/she has at his disposal. A high school tecaher with masters is adequate, but one with a Phd and/or industrial experience has a greater pool of knowledge/tool set to draw upon. He/she might be rusty if it isn't required often, but if a person learns something well it's never lost.
This doesn't mean a person with masters won't teach better then one with a Phd, or that a dance teacher who does not know silver will be a wosre teacher then one who does. Similarly, I have tutored in subjects I know little of as many people like the way that I impart knowledge, and they have done well in what I have taught.
This doesn't mean a person with masters won't teach better then one with a Phd, or that a dance teacher who does not know silver will be a wosre teacher then one who does. Similarly, I have tutored in subjects I know little of as many people like the way that I impart knowledge, and they have done well in what I have taught.
dancin_feet
New Member
IMO teachers need to be at least two "levels" above their most advanced student, from a teaching perspective.
I have one guy at my studio who is one level ahead of me, but his instructor is not yet qualified to teach advanced bronze group classes. She is trying to teach him intermediate bronze and is struggling with it. His progress has virtually stopped because his teacher is not advanced enough to give him the knowledge he needs.
Teachers / instructors need to be on top of what students they have and what levels they need to be at to instruct those students. If they are not, they should either be constantly upgrading their skills or consider transferring their students to another teacher once they get to that level.
I have one guy at my studio who is one level ahead of me, but his instructor is not yet qualified to teach advanced bronze group classes. She is trying to teach him intermediate bronze and is struggling with it. His progress has virtually stopped because his teacher is not advanced enough to give him the knowledge he needs.
Teachers / instructors need to be on top of what students they have and what levels they need to be at to instruct those students. If they are not, they should either be constantly upgrading their skills or consider transferring their students to another teacher once they get to that level.
SDsalsaguy
Administrator
I think it all depends on what's being taught. Maybe someone doesn't even know their bronze syllabus... but if they know and can teach how to really move? Well, to me that's worth infinetly more than knowing their gold syllabus down cold.
DanceMentor
Administrator
I went for a long time without ever really knowing the complete Silver syllabus (even though I knew lots of silver level steps). There are many dance teachers out there who specialize in teaching beginners. There are actually more beginners than there are advanced students. So yes, it is very easy for a teacher to teach just bronze. I know quite a few teachers who don't know silver, but they much better teachers some of their peers who know silver and above.
I do know the silver syllabus quite well now, and hope to check out soon.
I do know the silver syllabus quite well now, and hope to check out soon.
dancin_feet
New Member
Maybe I'm missing the point of the post. If they want to teach silver, they need to know it, or a little ahead of what they are going to teach. If a teacher wants to just stick to teaching beginners, no they probably don't need to know bronze syllabus, but they need to be able to recognise their limitation and pass their students onto someone else when the student wants to progress past this point, rather than learning along with them.
Doesn't build the confidence knowing your teacher is learning how to teach you immediately before the lesson!! :shock:
Doesn't build the confidence knowing your teacher is learning how to teach you immediately before the lesson!! :shock:
SDsalsaguy
Administrator
Well said d_f... although I'm afraid the economic side of the equation gets in the way of this much too often...dancin_feet said:
Porfirio Landeros
New Member
.SDsalsaguy said:... although I'm afraid the economic side of the equation gets in the way of this much too often...
I'll buy that for a dollar.
I agree with that, having experienced it first hand.
It also begs the question, at least in my mind, of whether there's any point in social dancers learning silver and above. With whom are they going to do these silver steps, exactly? Very few, if any, people, ever get that far. And yet there are studios out there, selling their non-competitive students silver. Why?
When you get into competitive dance, pro-am or professional, that's a whole different story, I think.
But at a social level, what is the point of learning a bunch of steps you'll rarely if ever use? Hence my former (and much loved -- props to you, DH, you know who you are
) teacher's problem. He had studied and been checked out of silver, but never had a chance to use it, since 90% of his students were at bronze I at the most. :?
It also begs the question, at least in my mind, of whether there's any point in social dancers learning silver and above. With whom are they going to do these silver steps, exactly? Very few, if any, people, ever get that far. And yet there are studios out there, selling their non-competitive students silver. Why?
When you get into competitive dance, pro-am or professional, that's a whole different story, I think.
But at a social level, what is the point of learning a bunch of steps you'll rarely if ever use? Hence my former (and much loved -- props to you, DH, you know who you are
) teacher's problem. He had studied and been checked out of silver, but never had a chance to use it, since 90% of his students were at bronze I at the most. :?My 2 cents....
I would tend to agree with Jonathon on this one when he says dance knowledge matters more than syllabus knowledge. I really wouldn't sweat it if my teacher didn't know an american rhythm pattern. For one thing, there must be a dozen different syllabus out there (If the teacher was certified in a particular sylabus, it may be a different story). For another, It has been my experience that knowledge of the Silver American Style syllabus does not always correlate to dancing ability. I used to take American Rhythm lessons with a great talented International Latin dancer. She was in the midst of an illustrious career and was enjoying great success as an international latin dancer. She won many titles and was in great demand as a performer and a coach. However, she didn't know the American Rhythm syllabus at the silver level.
Every so often, she would stop in the middle of our lesson to review the pattern with a fellow instructor because she didn't know the pattern herself! However, I never really felt worried because when she came back, she would know the pattern and would use it to illustrate basic technique. She would know the intricacies and be able to explain what made the pattern work and what were the key essential elements I needed to know in order to lead and dance it well. Later, we would revisit the pattern after I had it down cold and add her unique take on styling and even made it look different than other teachers teaching the same pattern :!: .
In contrast, I know of some very experienced teachers who knew the entirety of the same American style syllabus but couldn't dance a lick much less explain how they worked. Consequently this was reflected in their students. Yes, they could pass an exam, but they really didn't know how to dance. The irony was that lessons with both teachers cost the same! :shock:
In American style, I'm more prone to giving a good dancer a break when it comes to syllabus knowledge. I think I would need better reasons to do the same with International style.
Jenn, I really wouldn't sweat it if you have confidence in your teacher's dance ability and knowledge. If you don't, then that may be a different story altogether.
....back to lurk mode....
I would tend to agree with Jonathon on this one when he says dance knowledge matters more than syllabus knowledge. I really wouldn't sweat it if my teacher didn't know an american rhythm pattern. For one thing, there must be a dozen different syllabus out there (If the teacher was certified in a particular sylabus, it may be a different story). For another, It has been my experience that knowledge of the Silver American Style syllabus does not always correlate to dancing ability. I used to take American Rhythm lessons with a great talented International Latin dancer. She was in the midst of an illustrious career and was enjoying great success as an international latin dancer. She won many titles and was in great demand as a performer and a coach. However, she didn't know the American Rhythm syllabus at the silver level.
Every so often, she would stop in the middle of our lesson to review the pattern with a fellow instructor because she didn't know the pattern herself! However, I never really felt worried because when she came back, she would know the pattern and would use it to illustrate basic technique. She would know the intricacies and be able to explain what made the pattern work and what were the key essential elements I needed to know in order to lead and dance it well. Later, we would revisit the pattern after I had it down cold and add her unique take on styling and even made it look different than other teachers teaching the same pattern :!: .
In contrast, I know of some very experienced teachers who knew the entirety of the same American style syllabus but couldn't dance a lick much less explain how they worked. Consequently this was reflected in their students. Yes, they could pass an exam, but they really didn't know how to dance. The irony was that lessons with both teachers cost the same! :shock:
In American style, I'm more prone to giving a good dancer a break when it comes to syllabus knowledge. I think I would need better reasons to do the same with International style.
Jenn, I really wouldn't sweat it if you have confidence in your teacher's dance ability and knowledge. If you don't, then that may be a different story altogether.
....back to lurk mode....
That particular teacher was a street dancer who came to ballroom later in life, and I can honestly say he taught me more about dancing with spirit and animation than any teacher I've had before or since. His knowledge of a syllabus wasn't why I studied with him. He taught me to let my inner spirit loose on the dance floor, and that'a lot more valuable than patterns to me. 8)
Spitfire
Well-Known Member
This raises a question for those more in the know...
Isn't it common practice in the studios for a teacher to go through certification tests in order to teach at the next highest level?
The question may seem silly, but I am just not familiar with the advancement process for instructors. :?
Isn't it common practice in the studios for a teacher to go through certification tests in order to teach at the next highest level?
The question may seem silly, but I am just not familiar with the advancement process for instructors. :?
dancin_feet said:
Teachers need to be constantly upgrading their skills, regardless of the teachers level.
Regarding the need to know silver level steps/patterns/technigue, it is not important in my teaching life presently. None of my students are there yet, and no-one locally dances at that level socially, so why would i spend my time there when I can be conslidating and focusing on what people actually want to learn? (Even if someone were to get to Silver, I would send them to the local competative coach anyway.) I bought the DanceVision Smooth Silver syllabus and videos, but have yet to make use of them. Perhaps in the future...
Kevin
Bear in mind when I say this, that I've become very cynical. But my view is that many studios out there find new step patterns easier to sell than good, solid technique. Social dance students might be best served by learning bronze level patterns together with good technique and partnering skills. But many dance students don't care enough about technique to buy more lessons and learn it. So they're encouraged to learn silver step patterns, and, of course, buy more lessons in the process. The irony is, of course, that without solid bronze technique, executing the silver patterns well becomes nigh unto impossible. :?