Do I have a bad teacher? Should I quit?

[M. Bingley]

Well, the local resources is just this guy, and as you pointed out, he easily loses patience with the beginners. Since he is probably aware of that problem of his , it makes even more sense to him to send the students to take lessons with other teachers. So, doing that, he probably has the students' interest in mind, after all.

If he was thinking that, he would have said, "I may not be so great at teaching beginners, but this famous teacher is. So you should take lessons with him!" Instead, he said, "You can't get good at tango without spending a lot of money." Intention matters more than effect here.

Incidentally, he's not exactly impatient with beginners. He's impatient with people who don't learn fast, who ask questions about his program, whether they're beginners or seasoned dancers. Behind this is a mixture of insecurity, arrogance, and lack of empathy.

 

[Mladenac]

There is "Mutiny on the Bounty" going on.

So why don't you confront him with the behaviour in private, in public or just leave from the class.
He is not aware of his behaviour and how it affects the group.
I don't know why you support his drinking habits.

You all guys love dancing, but the self respect is crucial for quality dancing also as dancing technique and musicality.

 

[opendoor]

Hi Bingley, of course you should quit, but not dancing tango:

..you do not need an instructor (or teacher) at all. All you need is a woman that knows to dance tango. Continuously ask for a feed back. Practice in your corridor hall, in your garage, on the dance floor of your community hall or in the back-room of your local cultural-corner-shop. There are so many alternatives. Think you´ve already read my slogan: tango learning is social learning in the first place. The first exercise for a brand-new tango newbie is to fill the address book of his mobile. When I started tango I had no money to afford lessons. I went to socials and in a snap I got to know all those advanced tango-gazelles.

Suggestion: The open air season starts, so invite the local tango crowd to your first sun-set-special flash-mob spon-longa (spontaneous milonga). All you need is current music on your mobile, boxes, and a crate of beer. (Ok, admitted, also alc-free beer, candles, and some tango-empanadas.) By the way I´ve also jet organized flash-mobs in winter time on a frozen lake! Simple google "tango flashmob" and get inspired! There are so many opportunities for you.

It seems to me that he's treating students as resources to be exploited, so he can get his advanced workshop

I also did it, think it´s ok (assumed being fair and sincere, of course).

 

[M. Bingley]

Someone sent a PM to me and suggested that my instructor probably doesn't want the students to get good. This actually resonates with me.

My instructor speaks regularly about how difficult learning tango was for him in the beginning, how people mistreated him. It's sad that he hasn't been able to overcome that, and even though he promises to create a better environment for the students, his past still comes out. He has something to offer, something that he acquired with pain and great effort. Alas, he hasn't freed himself from what others did to him. Abuse begets abuse, and now he's passing on the bad stuff, too.

Looking at what I've written as well as what my fellow dancers have advised, I feel I should definitely leave that school. I'll see whether there is room for tango in my life.
Thanks, everyone!

 

[Mladenac]

Someone sent a PM to me and suggested that my instructor probably doesn't want the students to get good. This actually resonates with me.

My instructor speaks regularly about how difficult learning tango was for him in the beginning, how people mistreated him. It's sad that he hasn't been able to overcome that, and even though he promises to create a better environment for the students, his past still comes out. He has something to offer, something that he acquired with pain and great effort. Alas, he hasn't freed himself from what others did to him. Abuse begets abuse, and now he's passing on the bad stuff, too.

Looking at what I've written as well as what my fellow dancers have advised, I feel I should definitely leave that school. I'll see whether there is room for tango in my life.
Thanks, everyone!

Selective reading again.

Have you ever tried to talk him privately about the issue?

Obviously he have been traumatized, but with proper approach you can change that since you have quite good relationship with him.
I wrote several times about that.
The best thing you can do for the community and yourself is to talk to him about the behaviour during the class.
Sometimes we are not aware of our behaviour and this completely corresponds to your teacher.

If you want to quit quit, but AT is not for quitters.
You will always come across teacher you don't like, partner you don't like, music you don't like,
floor you don't like, ... .

The best thing I got from AT is to be adaptive to a situation and to stand up for myself.

 

[newbie]

Are there independant milongas in town or is the teacher also organizing them? That is, is there any tango at all besides this guy? If he is the Godfather of tango in this "one-horse town" then yes, it's better to put your money and free time into another hobby.

I've been a student in classes where the teacher used to put together people from various levels, ranging from absolute beginner to seasoned intermediate, spliiting all the people into three or four little groups and going from one group to the other during the whole class/workshop, showing different things to different groups. And from what I saw, it does not work.

 

[bordertangoman]

If he was thinking that, he would have said, "I may not be so great at teaching beginners, but this famous teacher is. So you should take lessons with him!" Instead, he said, "You can't get good at tango without spending a lot of money." Intention matters more than effect here.

Incidentally, he's not exactly impatient with beginners. He's impatient with people who don't learn fast, who ask questions about his program, whether they're beginners or seasoned dancers. Behind this is a mixture of insecurity, arrogance, and lack of empathy.

have you tried empathising with him? It can be very frustrating teaching tango since everyone comes with a lifelong posture which needs to change to new position in order to dance tango well, and it is one of the hardest things to change since our body's idea of what is 'normal' feels any change to be off kilter, even if its not. A bit of anger management might help, but your conclusion of arrogance and insecurity might be off. sounds more like impatience and frustration to me, which I can quite understand.

 

[M. Bingley]

Reasoning with him? Another thing with this guy is that he doesn't want to talk to students. Other than superficial pleasantries, he generally cuts people off or ignores them when they try to talk to him. He doesn't respond to emails except with pleasantries.

At some level he knows the effect he has on the students, except that he justifies himself. He enjoys telling this story about how he made a student cry in class to illustrate what a tough teacher he is. He talks "straight" and doesn't "fall for that PC nonsense," he likes to say. Also, he has a crappy job, and this student was professionally respected. He really likes to emphasize that aspect.

Again, the only thing that has worked with him is getting him to drink more. That seems to provide the chemical change he needs to be a more balanced human being. Alas, I failed to get him to drink before class regularly.

I have done other demanding physical activities, and I am accomplished. I can recognize when it's a problem with the student and when it's a problem with the teacher. I knew there was a problem with the teacher. He has a history of pushing away most of the talented people, leaving only mediocre students around him, with the exception of his girlfriend. What I didn't know was whether tango teachers in general are nuts.

Anyway, I got what I need here. I have learned that this is not the norm for tango. There is an instructor in the nearest big city, except that she's not very experienced (only 8 years under her belt). I'll see how she behaves in class.

 

[Mladenac]

Anyway, I got what I need here. I have learned that this is not the norm for tango. There is an instructor in the nearest big city, except that she's not very experienced (only 8 years under her belt). I'll see how she behaves in class.

And how far it is?

Don't get critical too soon.

 

[pascal]

he made a student cry in class

Susanna Miller does just that all the time, and many people say she is a very good teacher. Only one stusent in tears so far? Room for improvement.

 

[opendoor]

As said above: I find the role of an instructor by far overestimated in tango!

 

[Mladenac]

As said above: I find the role of an instructor by far overestimated in tango!

It is and it is not.

 

[bordertangoman]

making a student cry in class, not difficult, I can get all my students to cry. All that is required is some strong onions

 

[Loki]

"Drink more and mellow out"?

 

[sixela]

What I didn't know was whether tango teachers in general are nuts.

Some of the best ones are. Michelle and Murat Erdemsel are definitely nuts, but in a very, very, very good way.