Do I have a bad teacher? Should I quit?
- Thread starter M. Bingley
- Start date
M. Bingley
New Member
making a student cry in class, not difficult, I can get all my students to cry. All that is required is some strong onions
Perhaps it is not particularly difficult, but then that goes for anything worth learning, not just tango. But do you do it because you have a bad job, and you feel bad because your student has a much better job? And are you proud of it?
Now, I wasn't there to witness the incident that day, so I don't know what actually happened. However, what the instructor presents as the truth is quite telling about his personality. Two people seem to be missing the point here.
opendoor
Forum Master
Donuts, of courseWhich nuts?
walnuts, chestnuts, hazelnuts, coconuts ...
I think the first thing is to disentangle the different issues:
1) Do you have a bad teacher?
Yes, you do. In my experience if somebody is posting a thread on an internet board asking a question like this is that they have already decided that there is a problem, and are mostly looking for support for their opinion
2) Should you quit taking classes from this teacher?
That is a more difficult question - I had some teachers in varied fields that I thought were horrible people, and I stayed their student as long as it wasn't a situation that I judged to be actually harmful for me/ where I didn't learn anything. I don't really expect teachers to be anything else besides knowledgeable in what they are teaching - there were some that were actually horrible at teaching, too, and I stuck with them till I had "stolen" as much as I could.
3) Should you quit tango?
I am not sure what that has to do with the first two questions. I think of tango as a social dance that in the end only exists at the milonga. I assume that if there is a tango class there is also a milonga, and you won't be banned from the milonga if you don't attend class. I think most of tango can be learned by dancing at milongas, and being aware and honest with one self, and accepting and listening to the feedback our partners give us in their dance. In the end it is really just walking. Having a teacher makes the whole thing much, much easier, and we will pick up some pieces of vocabulary we might not have invented ourselves, but if the fundamentals are there the rest is a) refining these fundamentals and b) add some (mostly unnecessary) frosting, and in the end there are no secrets or shortcuts.
Gssh
1) Do you have a bad teacher?
Yes, you do. In my experience if somebody is posting a thread on an internet board asking a question like this is that they have already decided that there is a problem, and are mostly looking for support for their opinion
2) Should you quit taking classes from this teacher?
That is a more difficult question - I had some teachers in varied fields that I thought were horrible people, and I stayed their student as long as it wasn't a situation that I judged to be actually harmful for me/ where I didn't learn anything. I don't really expect teachers to be anything else besides knowledgeable in what they are teaching - there were some that were actually horrible at teaching, too, and I stuck with them till I had "stolen" as much as I could.
3) Should you quit tango?
I am not sure what that has to do with the first two questions. I think of tango as a social dance that in the end only exists at the milonga. I assume that if there is a tango class there is also a milonga, and you won't be banned from the milonga if you don't attend class. I think most of tango can be learned by dancing at milongas, and being aware and honest with one self, and accepting and listening to the feedback our partners give us in their dance. In the end it is really just walking. Having a teacher makes the whole thing much, much easier, and we will pick up some pieces of vocabulary we might not have invented ourselves, but if the fundamentals are there the rest is a) refining these fundamentals and b) add some (mostly unnecessary) frosting, and in the end there are no secrets or shortcuts.
Gssh
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
Agree.
You don't go to class to psychoanalyze the teacher or judge him on his personality. You go there to learn.
Unless his behavior makes the learning difficult or impossible, whatever goes on in the darkness of his soul is actually none of your business.
M. Bingley
New Member
Thanks for all your input. Gssh makes some good points. I've already made up my mind.
After studying various things for decades, I do feel students tend to absorb some of their teacher's personality and behavior. Around twenty years ago, I knew indirectly this school (not tango), whose teacher, though charismatic and effective, was a drug dealer. He got many of his students into drugs, and some worked for him as dealers. This is an extreme example, I know, and what the student absorb from the teacher can be utterly unpredictable. But I do think there are some cases where you have to start worrying about what else you are learning besides the lessons you've signed up for. I've seen "less extreme" examples where the teacher leaves some sort of psychological imprint in the students, not always for the better.
With my tango teacher, it's a rather sad situation. I recognize that he's not enormously gifted physically, and his tango ability is an accomplishment that he acquired through a great deal of effort. Often people who have had to do so really know how to teach, because they had to struggle to learn. (By contrast, dance geniuses can have a hard time explaining what they do so simply and easily.) Alas, this man let his bad experiences (in tango and in life) poisoned him, and that's really damaging what he can give to the world.
It's not my duty to psychoanalyze tango instructors, but I was torn between my love of the art form and the drawbacks of my school. If it were anything else I'd immediately walk out, because the way that man behaves in class on a bad day is not acceptable. So I do want to understand what's going on, and what seems like "psychoanalysis" is just a part of this process. Initially I wondered whether abusive behaviors are just common in tango. Who knows, maybe it is. Two people are talking about making their students cry.
Hopefully the next time I post, I'll be able report some better news!
After studying various things for decades, I do feel students tend to absorb some of their teacher's personality and behavior. Around twenty years ago, I knew indirectly this school (not tango), whose teacher, though charismatic and effective, was a drug dealer. He got many of his students into drugs, and some worked for him as dealers. This is an extreme example, I know, and what the student absorb from the teacher can be utterly unpredictable. But I do think there are some cases where you have to start worrying about what else you are learning besides the lessons you've signed up for. I've seen "less extreme" examples where the teacher leaves some sort of psychological imprint in the students, not always for the better.
With my tango teacher, it's a rather sad situation. I recognize that he's not enormously gifted physically, and his tango ability is an accomplishment that he acquired through a great deal of effort. Often people who have had to do so really know how to teach, because they had to struggle to learn. (By contrast, dance geniuses can have a hard time explaining what they do so simply and easily.) Alas, this man let his bad experiences (in tango and in life) poisoned him, and that's really damaging what he can give to the world.
It's not my duty to psychoanalyze tango instructors, but I was torn between my love of the art form and the drawbacks of my school. If it were anything else I'd immediately walk out, because the way that man behaves in class on a bad day is not acceptable. So I do want to understand what's going on, and what seems like "psychoanalysis" is just a part of this process. Initially I wondered whether abusive behaviors are just common in tango. Who knows, maybe it is. Two people are talking about making their students cry.
Hopefully the next time I post, I'll be able report some better news!
Lilly_of_the_valley
Well-Known Member
At least you managed to fall in love with tango taking his classes, and that is a lot... any teacher would be happy and proud of that kind of a result... unless, in your case, it has come from somewhere else?
M. Bingley
New Member
I got interested in tango from my previous ballroom experience, and that made me want to try out the Argentinian original. I'll give credit where it's due: my former instructor is precise and on the spot when he actually teaches, and I like that sort of stuff.
This wasn't my first experience with problematic and even outright abusive teachers. They tend not to affect what I see in the art form.
This wasn't my first experience with problematic and even outright abusive teachers. They tend not to affect what I see in the art form.
I came across various teachers in my life. The point is can you learn what you want.
I was at the same position as you are now, but I knew what I came for.
My desire and energy was stronger than obstacles.
If you approach AT to analytically you won't get essence from it.
Every time you dance you are dancing with a person that day, that moment.
I am inclining that you will, but I know a quite amount of people who came from BR to AT.
AT is social dancing and it's not only a dance, it is kind of culture.
Over time you will be change in a much positive ways.
Which ones? You need to find out by yourself.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
I was going to say something similar. i suspect there may be a bit of Prima Dona or its male equivalent going on here, and maybe that's a spin off from ballet schools where you have to be tough physically and emotionally to become good*
footnote: ballet cf football training
So what’s the difference between a footballer and a ballet dancer? Top footballers train for two to three hours a day and might do an hour’s work in the gym after that. Their counterparts in ballet kick off with an hour’s Pilates, followed by a 90-minute warm-up and up to six hours’ rehearsal. And perhaps a two-hour performance in the evening. One-nil to the ballet boys.”
pascal
Active Member
Hey your pic is actually the lower part of a dancer. I thought it was the eyes of a black cat.
My former teacher was like that too. Besides his regular classes he would give introductory classes of any dance (Charleston, disco, whatever) and then say ok pupils, if you like this dance then go find a dedicated teacher.
