Do I have to dance with my friends?

[dchester]

Here's a conumdrum....

Here are my thoughts on how to deal with the issue of how to maintain/maximize your tango enjoyment (without appearing to be a snob). The only possible solution I see, is to talk to some of the people in your community.

First, I'd find out how other followers feel about the people in question. Do other followers feel the same as you about them, or are they OK in dancing with them? If it's only you, there is probably no solution.

Second, I'd talk to the person who is about to go on your no fly list. Depending on how good your relationship is, explain what your issue is with him. I would suggest offering a free private lesson (or two) to help him with whatever the issue is, that is causing the problem.


I also have some (possibly radical) advice about another issue in your post, how to maintain/maximize your teaching business. It is, give the customer what he wants. Teach them the "fancy" steps, rather than forcing them to go to someone else who will (and likely not as well). They got worse when they went elsewhere, so what have you got to lose? You can still work on fundamentals while teaching the fancy steps.

I know this isn't the party line, but I think it's the best you can do with some people (BTW, I was one of those people, so I know first hand). I eventually changed my focus, and got better at fundamentals (even if I still have a long ways to go). Possibly some of these people there will too, once they've been exposed to the other steps that interest them.

 

[samina]

Here's a conumdrum....

can't you just accept their invites... and observe the most egregious issues tactfully during a dance? i guess there are those who don't care for this from instructors when social dancing, but i'm quite used to receiving corrective comments that way. seems pretty normal in my neck of the woods.

if you're friendly, detached, use a little humor, and issue your observation in stride without personal emotional drama, the likelihood that it will be received in stride will increase.

anyway, at least you will know you haven't been holding your tongue about something that clearly bothers you, and which is unpleasant to experience on the floor.

 

[AndaBien]

...First, I'd find out how other followers feel about the people in question...

I appreciate your thought full response.

At times I have recommended to certain friends that they dance with someone who I have enjoyed dancing with, only to have them come back to me later and ask what I saw that was so worthwhile. Also, vice versa. So, other peoples opinion doesn't make that much difference to me.

...Second, I'd talk to the person who is about to go on your no fly list.

My problem with this is that they have not asked for my evaluation of their dance. If they ask, I am happy to give it. Other wise, I keep my mouth shut.

...I also have some (possibly radical) advice about another issue in your post, how to maintain/maximize your teaching business. It is, give the customer what he wants...

I am not interested in being a dance teacher, per se. I am interested in helping people learn to dance. (Please understand the difference). If a person comes to me and says I want to learn xyz and I think they are serious students of dance, I will do my best to help them to go there. I like their vision and commitment. If they want to rely on my understanding of dance, I am happy to take charge of that and prescribe a direction for them.

(Hmm, I sort of lost the track right there).

 

[dchester]

My problem with this is that they have not asked for my evaluation of their dance. If they ask, I am happy to give it. Other wise, I keep my mouth shut.

I understand your point, but I must confess that my advice was specific to the situation that Zoopsia articulated. She is unhappy with that status quo, thus something different must be done. Her concern is that if she simply stops dancing with him/them (without an explanation), she could become somewhat ostracized in her community. If your concerns are different, then the advice would be different.

 

[Lui]

Zoopsia59,

here are some thoughts of mine on that subject the might or might not help:

I never teach except when I’m ask to. I rarely teach, when I’m not being paid for. It took my years to develop my dancing skills, understanding of tango and teaching methods. This knowledge is something precious and I will not throw it away on someone who doesn’t want it. An excellent teacher will be found by the student not the other way round.

It’s hard to teach friends in a public class, because in friendship both partners are or should be on the same level of authority. As a teacher I have to guide and lead a class, I should have a sufficient high level of proficiency to be the only authority and all students should be equal dear to me. That change of role is sometimes awkward to me.

It helps to clearly cut out your target market segment and advertise that way. At the time I officially offer only Tango Salon, as it is the second most requested style beside Nuevo in Berlin. I don’t teach Nuevo, as it is not a style I’m deeply specialised in or like that much. At the time being, there is little demand for Milonguero. However, I organize once a month a cozy, traditional Milonga, with quite some seats and a rather small dance space. As the people start to enjoy the familiar atmosphere and the game of codigos, I get the first request for private lessons for dancing “in close embrace on small space like the old guys in Argentina”. Maybe there will be demand for Tango Milonguero one day.

When I am at my own Milonga I will try to dance with all women (otherwise my partner will kick my b...). Women sitting single and waiting for a dance have a higher priority, than women, who already dance a lot. As we have small Milonga I will use that opportunity to introduce new visitors to my students. Then some students of mine better ask them to dance or I will encourage them. When I’m visiting a “foreign” Milonga I’ll try to dance with every female student attending. Sometimes I don’t manage to dance with all women or miss one or two. When the left out complain, I apologize and encourage them to ask me for a dance next time

 

[Lui]

I’m not sure if it’s good idea in your case, but this is a strategy my partner employs in similar situations. When he is a ruthless dancer, a follower has the power to make him look bad, often by simply executing what he is actually leading. If he is complaining, simply tell him that’s precisely what he leads and if he likes a different response he better polish up his lead/posture/whatever. This usually gets on of two reactions:Either he never dances with you anymore or he will seriously consider to take up classes. Either way: problem solved.

Try at your own risk!

 

[Joe]

Here's a conumdrum....

Former students who are also supposedly "friends" (at least from the standpoint of tango events) who no longer come to me for lessons and are STILL making the very mistakes I tried to fix when they did. The mistakes that bother me most when dancing socially.

They have "progressed" to fancy stuff I wouldn't teach them til they resolved some basic technique issues and are taking classes that teach steps. As a result, their basics have gotten WORSE. They are now even MORE unpleasant to dance.

So what do I do when they ask me to dance?

Not a conundrum!

You are established as a teacher, apparently. So teach! On the dance floor, that is. Start criticizing their dancing when you are dancing with them: "Oh, you need to stand on that foot longer before you lead a boleo...blah blah blah." They will soon tire of dancing with you and will stop asking!

 

[bafonso]

You are facing a dilemma every teacher has. Most teachers get a bad rep because they only dance with some people. That's a decision they consciously make. But, then again, so do the best and more experienced dancers.

If a prospective student doesn't take classes from someone that dances with people that hurt her/him, do you really want to teach then? Are you that desperate for money?

Everyone gets the students they cater for and foster. You can't teach everybody specially because eventually students will want things from you that you're not interested in teaching them. That's when they chose other teachers and that's fine.

You shouldn't act much as a teacher at milongas. Easier said that done, true. But I've found the more charismatic the teachers, and hence more popular, are very good at making sure they're not wearing their active teacher hat at a milonga. Milonga is not for teaching.

 

[newbie]

are STILL making the very mistakes I tried to fix when they did.

So, you were unable to teach them the basics.

They have "progressed" to fancy stuff I wouldn't teach them

While another teacher was able to teach them fancy stuff.

What do I do?

Find another job?

 

[Zoopsia59]

So, you were unable to teach them the basics.

While another teacher was able to teach them fancy stuff.

Find another job?

I hope you are making a joke, otherwise that's pretty harsh. You obviously missed my point.

Perhaps I should say (here we go with that annoying semantics battle again) that they were shown fancy stuff by another "instructor", not that they were "taught", much less "learned", fancy stuff. So now they try to do that fancy stuff.

Yes, I was unable to get them to correct their fundamental technique issues in the couple of lessons they took from me after having developed those habits over time (sometimes quite a bit of time!). They didn't want to improve what they were already doing, they wanted to add more "impressive" stuff to what they were doing.

As I said, if they were dancing well or even just "better", I'd be happy for them that they found something that has worked for them and improved their Tango. I'd have no problem dancing with them. I think I stated several times that they are WORSE now. Obviously layering all that fancy stuff onto poor fundamental technique doesn't work very well, which is why I wasn't going to teach them fancy stuff yet (and why they went elsewhere.

 

[Lui]

There are all kind of people in the tango community and not all will appreciate my style of teaching. If students change to another teacher, I respect their decision, but I don’t bother their “development” afterwards anymore. Now, the responsibility for their dancing lies with themselves and whoever teaches them. On the other hand, some students change into my classes and it would strike me as odd, when their former teacher snoops around.

In my opinion, it makes no sense to waste too much energy on the “passed away”. I rather use that energy to lure newbies into the tango community.

 

[dchester]

So, you were unable to teach them the basics.

While another teacher was able to teach them fancy stuff.

You clearly did not understand at all what she was saying.

 

[larrynla]

So, you were unable to teach them the basics.

Erh, no. They were unwilling to learn them. Or possibly flat out unable to. I've seen people who've taken classes in all sorts of dances who never ever become good dancers. They just lack some essential ingredient, or maybe ingredients.

Some teachers obsessively spend an enormous amount of time on the basics and so drive away students who legitimately want some variety in what they learn. The most useful tactic seems to be to combine basics with a few fancy moves.

One popular and influential teacher I went to for years would show us a fancy combination, then teach it to us by breaking it down into smaller parts. Then he would take those parts and show how to make other combinations, and remind us that combinations were for learning, that choreograpy belongs on the stage and not the social dance floor.

Then once we could all at least stumble through a combination, he would focus on technical issues to make doing them smoother and easier. Also maybe talk a little bit about music. So by the end of a one-hour class he had given us a little bit of everything.

 

[bordertangoman]

Erh, no. They were unwilling to learn them. Or possibly flat out unable to. I've seen people who've taken classes in all sorts of dances who never ever become good dancers. They just lack some essential ingredient, or maybe ingredients.

i agree. I know one or two people; they can do modern jive with proficiency but just cant get the skills to improve at tango.

One popular and influential teacher I went to for years would show us a fancy combination, then teach it to us by breaking it down into smaller parts. Then he would take those parts and show how to make other combinations, and remind us that combinations were for learning, that choreograpy belongs on the stage and not the social dance floor.

Then once we could all at least stumble through a combination, he would focus on technical issues to make doing them smoother and easier. Also maybe talk a little bit about music. So by the end of a one-hour class he had given us a little bit of everything.

I use(d) this approach for intermediate students; they are getting taught the basics; connection, balance; axis; relaxed free leg, musicality etc. but the bait is this nice move.

 

[Dave Bailey]

i agree. I know one or two people; they can do modern jive with proficiency but just cant get the skills to improve at tango.

Damn, I knew I should never have let you see those vids of me...

I use(d) this approach for intermediate students; they are getting taught the basics; connection, balance; axis; relaxed free leg, musicality etc. but the bait is this nice move.

I think as a teacher you have to give your students some "carrot" - it's not just all about trying to impart pure boring technique.

So, for example, I add "fun steps" at the end (ganchos, sacadas, soltadas etc.). Of course I stress that these are non-essential movements, and I don't spend a lot of time on them, but the students like them.

Of course, typically, all I get asked is "How can I make this gancho look good?" rather than, say, "Can you look at my posture?", but I think there's always some element of compromise with these things. If all your students go away, it doesn't matter if you can teach brilliantly.