Doping: Advantage or Not?

[madmaximus]

Chris Stratton's statement piqued my interest in the Edita Daniute thread.

Setting aside the broad legal, moral, and ethical issues--I wanted to look at doping in ballroom from a pragmatic view--my question is:

In DanceSport, do you think doping confers any advantage to the user? Why?

I personally don't think it does for a variety of reasons, but some of them are:

1. Both dancers as a couple need to be users (unlikely but possible) for the drugs to be of any reasonable value.
Even if it does give one dancer any advantage, that is still just one half of the team.

2. Physical advantages can easily be gained through a reasonably stringent conditioning regimen.

There are more, but this should suffice to start.





m

 

[waltzgirl]

I've wondered that, too. I have a hard time thinking of any drugs that would give an advantage in the things that matter most in dancing. I suppose stimulants of some sort might help with stamina, but I would imagine any side effects like jitteriness would do more harm than good. Especially considering the range of dances competitors do. I'd hate to try to waltz or do int. rumba hyped up on something.

 

[Nik]

I got accused of taking steroids at the USABDA nationals a few years ago. By looking at me you can clearly tell im all pumped up from steroids........NOT.

I think its smart to test but dancers don't need to be stronger from drugs. Actually taking drugs would hurt your dancing and not really have any positive impact.

As far as recreational drugs, I don't understand how that could improve your dancing or give you an edge on anyone else.

 

[reb]

I've wondered that, too. I have a hard time thinking of any drugs that would give an advantage in the things that matter most in dancing. I suppose stimulants of some sort might help with stamina, but I would imagine any side effects like jitteriness would do more harm than good. Especially considering the range of dances competitors do. I'd hate to try to waltz or do int. rumba hyped up on something.

My sentiments also.
c-a-l-m

 

[Chris Stratton]

My reasoning is that while there are probably substances that could help someone who was having trouble keeping up physically, that is only a small part of the overall requirement - there are lots of athletes in outstanding physical condition, but only a tiny fraction of them will be championship dancers.

And if you wanted to look at "bad life choices made in attempt to get temporarily ahead in dancing" then, there are so many other things on that list which cannot be prevented by rules that substance abuse gets pushed down to the point of irrelevance.

 

[Laura]

I think there are some advantages to be had in the relaxation, nerves, stamina, energy, and weight-loss departments, but still I really don't see the point in dancesport getting all crazy about being part of the draconian WADA and US-ADA rules. The only reason I see why dancesport is getting involved with anti-doping is because the International Olympic Committee says we have to, and I have a big "who the hell cares?" opinion about all that. I'm reasonably sure that if the IDSF wasn't so hot to get into the Olympics, then anti-doping would be a non-issue with respect to dancesport at this time.

I find it quite amusing that on the one hand USA Dance wants to make dancesport "sportier" by holding it up to the standards set by the US-ADA...while on the other hand a couple of USA Dance officials complained that our last National Championships weren't held in a sufficiently elegant venue. They were held in a basketball arena. And basketball is a sport. And so if they want dancesport to be sportier, then why shouldn't the competitions be held in a sports arena? To me it's like they want it both ways: to have all the elegance of a bourgeois activity from a bygone age, and all the sportiness of peeing in a cup afterwards. Make up your minds so we can all get back to concentrating on the dancing....

 

[danceforfun]

With dance sport becoming more italian style in dynamics and power there is a lot of room for medical "enhancements". More than in earlier days when dancing was still a society event and dancers saw themseves as artists.

Since IDSF (and a lot of national dancing associations) have chosen to go olympic, there´s a need for such rules.

The most important doping enhancements in dancing aren´t amphetamin or steroids because that doesn´t make you a better dancer, it just can strenghten your endurance capabilities. But like sibutramine or caffeine you can get a kick in a competition. And this is of course a unfair advantage between equal level dancers.

I know there are some people who don´t comply with the actual rules, but either make them better by contributing good ideas directly to the people in charge or leave the amateur association and quit becoming amateur champion.

At the moment there is no regulation with the professionals, but sooner or later there will be one of their own.

 

[saludas]

I don't think that strength improving goes hand in hand with anxiety or nervousness, in enhancing drugs. In fact, the side effects of a drug may often BE the enhancement desired - in the case of, for instance, a drug originally designed for blood thinning being used for hair loss.

I am bringing this up for the same reason why many 'antidrug' messages do not work - they are based on a faulty logic that either misinformation will scare someone away from drug use, or that if someone sees a downside it will offset the advantages and cause them to reject a drug based on LOGIC.

Certainly nobody wants a drug that melts fat but causes anxiety. But many people will, when asked honestly, WILL trade off one cause for an effect. That's why people do drugs that cause problems - people weigh the downsides. Why, otherwise, would people choose to smoke? The downside is social stigmatization and greatly increased health issues - but the smoker chooses to smoke despite the actual medical issues.

My POINT here is that fighting drug use in a sport must either be well regulated or completely nonregulated. testing will prevent many from doing the drugs - and yes, many people will seek ways to hide the usage, or 'game' the system - but you can't reasonably expect logic and reality to prevent someone from doing drugs.

I read once about a survey of bodybuilders, who, whe confronted by a hypothetical question, "if you were given the option of taking a drug that would make you Mr. Olympia but would killl you in five years, would you do it?" the percentage of respondents in this survey who said 'yes' was in the MAJORITY, so strong was their competitive bent.


Just sayin'....

 

[Joe]

As far as recreational drugs, I don't understand how that could improve your dancing or give you an edge on anyone else.

Duuuuude! Maybe they help if you need to relax. Of course, the munchies side effects are counterproductive to keeping fit.

 

[Chris Stratton]

The most important doping enhancements in dancing aren´t amphetamin or steroids because that doesn´t make you a better dancer, it just can strenghten your endurance capabilities. But like sibutramine or caffeine you can get a kick in a competition. And this is of course a unfair advantage between equal level dancers.

Caffeine is permitted - which really calls into question the utility of banning substances which are thought to be less effective than caffeine as stimulants.

 

[danceforfun]

Caffeine is permitted - which really calls into question the utility of banning substances which are thought to be less effective than caffeine as stimulants.

You´re right, caffeine was prohibited for a while in certain sports as it still is alcohol. (dancing and drinking is o.k. )

You can be of different opinions about what is an effective stimulant and what not. Solely the negative sideeffects for the athlete´s health are reason enough to bann the substance.

As you see in the current case, people take all kinds of silly drugs for special purposes.

And as an irony sibutramine has no weight reducing effect at all for a well trained athlete like Edita Daniute. Every session in the gym or on the floor has more effect and is less dangerous for her health.

I personally still don´t buy the explanation because of this. I just can´t imagine she´s so stupid taking the drug without asking her doctor.

But as IDSF decided, the lost world championship is just the right punishment either if it was negligence or intentionally.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I just can´t imagine she´s so stupid taking the drug without asking her doctor.

Welcome to the real world of the young people prominent in dancing today.

That the whole WADA structure assumes the involvement of team doctors with specialized knowledge - something most dancers to do not have - is precisely the problem.

Combine the general hesitancy of healthy young people to bother with even general practice doctors, the whole industry of marketing questionable "herbal supplements" and the like as if they were food rather than drugs, and the presence of many banned substances or their precursors in legitimate over the counter medication and you have a presecription for inadvertant doping problems.

 

[danceforfun]

Welcome to the real world of the young people prominent in dancing today.

That the whole WADA structure assumes the involvement of team doctors with specialized knowledge - something most dancers to do not have - is precisely the problem.

Combine the general hesitancy of healthy young people to bother with even general practice doctors, the whole industry of marketing questionable "herbal supplements" and the like as if they were food rather than drugs, and the presence of many banned substances or their precursors in legitimate over the counter medication and you have a presecription for inadvertant doping problems.

I agree about the questionable ingredients of these herbal stuff but as every day a whole bunch of simple minded idiots get up and buy this **** without asking what it is

But in the consequence I strongly disagree with your conclusion. The normal thing is not taking any drugs or supplements. If you want to be a real sportsman, you have to consider what you take if necessary. And any good doctor can tell you what ingredients are harmfull or forbidden stuff for athletes. You don´t need a team doctor (although those athletes who usually are tested have access) for reading the WADA list and compare it to the stuff you are intending to take. If you´re unsure, you can ask WADA or the NADA for help. In doubt you should leave it!