bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
Yira - Villurca; cd: Electro Viaje Porteno is an example of what some electrotango can do: just make evrything nice and slow and moody.
Electronic tango
- Thread starter jantango
- Start date
Peaches
Well-Known Member
I like electronic tango (as well as old traditional tango, new arrangments of traditional tunes, and "alternative" tango music--ie, anything I like that I could think to dance to) because they all have different feels to them. Sometimes, I like the more staid and somber old music. Sometimes I like that melancholy trance feeling. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for any of that, and want to be able to dance to anything else I want to...which AT allows me to do.
Different moods, different music.
Different moods, different music.
samina
Well-Known Member
well-said. geez... hear music. connect with partner. dance.
there will always be arguable intellectual flights of fancy in every dance form. but they're worthless if they corrupt one's joy, one's spirit, and one's dance. IMHO.
and if something is always done as it's always been done...where's the growth, the evolution, the freedom of expression??
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Agreed. (Well, obviously. 
)
DH and I were talking about this last night and he made the comment that if you're not going to explore and grow and revel in the freedom of art, and instead focus on maintining some sort of purity to how it used to be done...you might as well call yourself a reenactor instead of a dancer (or artist or musician).
Personally, I want to be a dancer.
)DH and I were talking about this last night and he made the comment that if you're not going to explore and grow and revel in the freedom of art, and instead focus on maintining some sort of purity to how it used to be done...you might as well call yourself a reenactor instead of a dancer (or artist or musician).
Personally, I want to be a dancer.
Joe
Forum Master
And can one truly say that "golden age" tango music is not the same? There are hundreds (thousands?) of tunes the afficionados listen/dance to today, but maybe that stuff falls into the latter 10%. How much of the original stuff has fallen by the wayside because it was crap?
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Absolutely.
Basically, I just used a variant of Sturgeon's law:
"Ninety percent of everything is crap"
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
aha if one takes Pareto's principle [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/]Pareto_principle[/URL]
to electronic tango then maybe it applies also to tango dancers that 80% of those who start to learn tango will give up for one reason or another.
off-topic I know
hbboogie1
New Member
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
only if this within a 20% range. But if that particular post is crap then Sturgeons law may not apply in which case it might be valid and if true then it cannot be crap.........
<L O G I C C I R C U I T S O V E R L O A D >
"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.
Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave.
Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a Nuevo 2009 Milonguero
Ampster
Active Member
We've lost btm
I think we may need to defibrulate his head... :headwall:... Paddles please, and charge to 450 joules
tangobro
Active Member
Otros Aires
the Electro/Acoustic Tango group Otros Aires played an outdoor concert in New York City last month. I shot a few vids when I wasn't dancing:
but I was mostly dancing.
BTW don't judge NYC tango dancing by the dancers in the vids. Since this was an outdoor event a lot of the NYC tangueros didn't pay the $15 to come inside the gate, they danced just outside the gate, with many going to a traditional milonga after the concert.
Here are a couple of their tracks that I HAD to dance to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZj1m-rt1c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsPr_4CD1Us
this is what the organizer's press release said about Otros Aires:
Wednesday, July 15
Otros Aires Tango New York Debut Otros Aires, an electro tango group founded in Barcelona in 2003 but now based in their native Argentina, mixes the tango and milongas songs from the early 20th Century with electronic melodies, sequences and lyrics from the 21st Century for a unique sound. Composed of four members – on bandoneon, guitar, drums and keyboard – the warmth of the acoustic instruments is more than matched by the coolness of the electronic sequences. Otros Aires’ music is hypnotic, sensual, and timeless tango. Their set will include traditional acoustic tango as well as new, electronic repertoire.
the Electro/Acoustic Tango group Otros Aires played an outdoor concert in New York City last month. I shot a few vids when I wasn't dancing:
but I was mostly dancing.
BTW don't judge NYC tango dancing by the dancers in the vids. Since this was an outdoor event a lot of the NYC tangueros didn't pay the $15 to come inside the gate, they danced just outside the gate, with many going to a traditional milonga after the concert.
Here are a couple of their tracks that I HAD to dance to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZj1m-rt1c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsPr_4CD1Us
this is what the organizer's press release said about Otros Aires:
Wednesday, July 15
Otros Aires Tango New York Debut Otros Aires, an electro tango group founded in Barcelona in 2003 but now based in their native Argentina, mixes the tango and milongas songs from the early 20th Century with electronic melodies, sequences and lyrics from the 21st Century for a unique sound. Composed of four members – on bandoneon, guitar, drums and keyboard – the warmth of the acoustic instruments is more than matched by the coolness of the electronic sequences. Otros Aires’ music is hypnotic, sensual, and timeless tango. Their set will include traditional acoustic tango as well as new, electronic repertoire.
Last edited by a moderator:
larrynla
Member
The quote sounds like some old guy with instrument envy. Or someone too set in what they know to try something new.
Most artists, however, are always playing around with new techniques and themes. At the same time we are also getting on with the serious business of perfecting our conventional skills and repertoires so that we can earn money to pay for food and rent and so on.
Artistic experiments by their nature usually fail. We go on to the next experiment. Which occasionally was inspired by some small good aspect of a failure. So idea begets idea begets idea. And eventually we achieve something that we want to show off, and get reactions from our public. Many of whom will hate, or more often be left cold by, our efforts. We can ignore the negative reactions. Or sometimes learn something useful from them. Maybe someone hated most, but not all, of the experimental side of what we've shown, which might be a painting, a musical performance, a film or sculpture or whatever.
Electronic musical instruments have evolved much from their beginnings. They are old hat nowadays. Performers and composers know all about how to use them. They have all the advantages of conventional instruments and, the expensive ones, none of the disadvantages - except expense! They can put out any sound a conventional instrument can, and so well that human ears no matter how good or skilled can tell the difference. The crap in the publicity quote that Ampster gave us ("warm acoustic" versus "cool electronic") is nearly a century out of date.
Electronic instruments usually have keyboards, but they can also be controlled by strings and breath and drum heads and so on. So why doesn't every professional musician use, say, electric guitars? Because (among other reasons) the technology behind acoustic guitars is mature and sophisticated. It may be thought of as low-tech but it is not. It is very high-tech but its nature is hidden from most of us because the evolution of acoustic guitars has simplified their use and their construction enormously, and most of us confuse complicated with advanced. The reverse is true.
That's the instrument side of the topic of "new tango music" subject.
__________________________________________________
Musicians and other artists experiment not only with our tools, but also our technique. A lot of the objections to "neotango" comes from these experiments.
One technique is the presentation of rhythms. How much can musicians diverge from the steady walking beat behind the Argentine tango?
One way is to give you both a slow-slow and quick-quick rhythms in the same piece of music, either alternating the rhythms or overlaying them. This lets dancers choose which rhythm to use, and lets them switch back and forth between the two. Here is an example of one of my favorite performing couples, Mariana and Sebastian, dancing in SEVERAL rhythms to Otros Aires' "Sin Rumbo."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFB8Lqwh-sI
"Sin Rumbo" is a good example of complex rhythmic expression. The first 20+ seconds the bandoneon plays a staccato slow-slow basic tango rhythm. Then its joined by the percussion section playing in quick-quick rhythm. Later on the percussion becomes quieter and the slow-slow rhythm audibly dominates. (Incidentally, if you listen closely you can tell that the piano also is contributing to the two rhythms.)
__________________________________________________
I suppose the bottom line to this discussion is a point several others have made in this thread. Tango has been evolving since its inception.
The use of various instruments is a good example. The first tango bands used portable instruments, often a guitar, drum, maybe a violin, and a whistle. The bandoneon, being small and light and versatile, was an early addition to tango bands, but it was not terribly important for a number of years because its frame was too fragile for it to be played loudly. Changing to a metal frame allowed the bandoneon to become a full member of tango bands.
Dance technique has also seen a lot of experimentation, but in the end I find it interesting that much of it is eventually abandoned by even its most ardent practitioners. Underneath, somehow, a unified tango seems to exist that will stay the same no matter how much the future enhances, but does not change, that essential core.
Laer Carroll - ShapechangerTales.com
Most artists, however, are always playing around with new techniques and themes. At the same time we are also getting on with the serious business of perfecting our conventional skills and repertoires so that we can earn money to pay for food and rent and so on.
Artistic experiments by their nature usually fail. We go on to the next experiment. Which occasionally was inspired by some small good aspect of a failure. So idea begets idea begets idea. And eventually we achieve something that we want to show off, and get reactions from our public. Many of whom will hate, or more often be left cold by, our efforts. We can ignore the negative reactions. Or sometimes learn something useful from them. Maybe someone hated most, but not all, of the experimental side of what we've shown, which might be a painting, a musical performance, a film or sculpture or whatever.
Electronic musical instruments have evolved much from their beginnings. They are old hat nowadays. Performers and composers know all about how to use them. They have all the advantages of conventional instruments and, the expensive ones, none of the disadvantages - except expense! They can put out any sound a conventional instrument can, and so well that human ears no matter how good or skilled can tell the difference. The crap in the publicity quote that Ampster gave us ("warm acoustic" versus "cool electronic") is nearly a century out of date.
Electronic instruments usually have keyboards, but they can also be controlled by strings and breath and drum heads and so on. So why doesn't every professional musician use, say, electric guitars? Because (among other reasons) the technology behind acoustic guitars is mature and sophisticated. It may be thought of as low-tech but it is not. It is very high-tech but its nature is hidden from most of us because the evolution of acoustic guitars has simplified their use and their construction enormously, and most of us confuse complicated with advanced. The reverse is true.
That's the instrument side of the topic of "new tango music" subject.
__________________________________________________
Musicians and other artists experiment not only with our tools, but also our technique. A lot of the objections to "neotango" comes from these experiments.
One technique is the presentation of rhythms. How much can musicians diverge from the steady walking beat behind the Argentine tango?
One way is to give you both a slow-slow and quick-quick rhythms in the same piece of music, either alternating the rhythms or overlaying them. This lets dancers choose which rhythm to use, and lets them switch back and forth between the two. Here is an example of one of my favorite performing couples, Mariana and Sebastian, dancing in SEVERAL rhythms to Otros Aires' "Sin Rumbo."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFB8Lqwh-sI
"Sin Rumbo" is a good example of complex rhythmic expression. The first 20+ seconds the bandoneon plays a staccato slow-slow basic tango rhythm. Then its joined by the percussion section playing in quick-quick rhythm. Later on the percussion becomes quieter and the slow-slow rhythm audibly dominates. (Incidentally, if you listen closely you can tell that the piano also is contributing to the two rhythms.)
__________________________________________________
I suppose the bottom line to this discussion is a point several others have made in this thread. Tango has been evolving since its inception.
The use of various instruments is a good example. The first tango bands used portable instruments, often a guitar, drum, maybe a violin, and a whistle. The bandoneon, being small and light and versatile, was an early addition to tango bands, but it was not terribly important for a number of years because its frame was too fragile for it to be played loudly. Changing to a metal frame allowed the bandoneon to become a full member of tango bands.
Dance technique has also seen a lot of experimentation, but in the end I find it interesting that much of it is eventually abandoned by even its most ardent practitioners. Underneath, somehow, a unified tango seems to exist that will stay the same no matter how much the future enhances, but does not change, that essential core.
Laer Carroll - ShapechangerTales.com
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Otros are fantastic - great fun, they really interact with the audience. I went to see them about 18 months ago, I had a superb time.