A better example video of minimalist performance ?I would say no, but it's all subjective anyway
Embrace...open or close?
- Thread starter Elian
- Start date
I didn't say it was wrong
The orchestra in this recording just doesn't play the 1, 2&3, 4&1... rhythm with enough attack to draw me there normally, compared to something like d'Arienzo which emphasizes rhythmic virtuosity.
Of course one could just as well argue that this rhythm is the most interesting thing going on in the piece and it's a performance, so why not showcase that.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I can't find a (good) video of myself!A better example video of minimalist performance ?
Also, it's hard in general to find a public performance of this particular song because the vast majority of (modern) performers pick more bombastic, intense and/or high energy tracks to perform to, because they tend to be more impactful visually. I assume they think subtlety is less profitable. I have more musicality in my (smaller) left pinkie than many of them will ever have.
So here's Ricardo Vidort:
For ease of comparison:
Tigre Viejo is a very different monster compared to La Melodía de Nuestro Adios. I would say it is more complex, and certainly is one of my absolute favourites, so it is not quite a fair comparison.
Coincidentally, a musical phrase starts around 1:28 in each video. Vidort is more restrained in his usage of double time when there is no note in the music, and in my opinion makes better usage of the inherent double-time parts when there are actually notes. One could talk about the implied double-time due to a change in rhythmic feel, but again Vidort does it better.
Vega does it well, but he does it too much, and he is adding too much noise to the music. A more egregious example would probably be from 1:28 to 1:40. Compare this to the same interval in Tigre Viejo: there is even actually a long string of double-time notes in the music, but Vidort remains restrained and fully in tune with the music.
And, well, like Rabbit says, the rhythm isn't that strong to (fully) warrant that much focus, but that's arguable, and it's a performance anyway.
Why do people talk only about the leader? Vidort's partner is the better dancer in that couple.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I'd like to dance with her very much, for sure, maybe even more than with Vidort.
opendoor
Forum Master
We had a lengthy discussion on Mariana Montes vs. Juana Sepulveda. Sorry, I am too lazy to seek out the link.
Neither was I implying you were wrong
A lot of dancers wishing to express musicality in this song, will likely choose the melody. The melody is more attractive and grabs your attention. My reasoning for his feet movement is he is expressing more rhythm and less melody in that video.
Vidort is a far better and probably more experienced dancer. He is one of the few I like watching no matter which music he is dancing to. Other thing I really like about him is that his performances/demos are very similar to his social dancing. I don’t model my dancing on anyone. But if I had to pick one it would have been Vidort. And back in the real world of local milongas and festivals, dancing like Vidort will be appreciated by only a few followers.I can't find a (good) video of myself!
Also, it's hard in general to find a public performance of this particular song because the vast majority of (modern) performers pick more bombastic, intense and/or high energy tracks to perform to, because they tend to be more impactful visually. I assume they think subtlety is less profitable. I have more musicality in my (smaller) left pinkie than many of them will ever have.
So here's Ricardo Vidort:
For ease of comparison:
Tigre Viejo is a very different monster compared to La Melodía de Nuestro Adios. I would say it is more complex, and certainly is one of my absolute favourites, so it is not quite a fair comparison.
Coincidentally, a musical phrase starts around 1:28 in each video. Vidort is more restrained in his usage of double time when there is no note in the music, and in my opinion makes better usage of the inherent double-time parts when there are actually notes. One could talk about the implied double-time due to a change in rhythmic feel, but again Vidort does it better.
Vega does it well, but he does it too much, and he is adding too much noise to the music. A more egregious example would probably be from 1:28 to 1:40. Compare this to the same interval in Tigre Viejo: there is even actually a long string of double-time notes in the music, but Vidort remains restrained and fully in tune with the music.
And, well, like Rabbit says, the rhythm isn't that strong to (fully) warrant that much focus, but that's arguable, and it's a performance anyway.
There is a way to express double time or syncopation without having to actually syncopate with your feet. Conversely you can also double time your steps though it may not be explicit in the music.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I think that's Vilma Martinez.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I used to like him very much and still respect him a great deal, but I no longer view him as a model.
It generally looks silly dancing more notes than are in the musical line. it's fun going to 4x, but only if it's there
If someone has not developed their own style yet and wish to model a good social dancing, I would point them to him (esp a lot of followers who want to lead). Later on they can diverge but modeling him can be a good starting point for someone that doesn't wish to be extravagant or do too many figures and wants to be musical.
I only discovered him on here. Long after I had my preferences of how I want to dance.
To me, model doesn't mean copying. It is about the approach both philosophical and on the dance floor.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Yes; rather than watch performances by modern dancers, I watch his and other milongueros' videos to keep myself humble.
As I was saying to a friend, since moving here, I have found that the things I spent absurd amounts of time and effort on — the music, the embrace, and listening to my partner (with a healthy amount of technique to facilitate these things) seem to be worth mere pennies here.
Being very inwardly-focused and favouring something of a quiet, minimalist approach, I don't really stand out on or off the pista, which is both a blessing and a curse I guess.
opendoor
Forum Master
So we should not dance together!
The rhythm is the foundation. One or more voices (melodies) are added, playing with the rhythm (but not with the time signature).
Steps is just another voice in that conversation: pausing, sometimes doubling, sometimes syncopating or accenting. That is not silly, that is why I dance tango.
Only the boring and untalented "dancer" maps the rhythm with his steps (shudder!).
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There are so many creative options in terms of what to do with a musical line and which notes to mark and not mark, without needing to mark notes that aren't there. You can follow some internal countermelody that you improvised, but the trouble is generally no one else can actually hear that, because we are translating from music language to dance language and not the other way. In the dance forms where the dancers act as instruments and create rhythm, they also generate actual sound with their feet.