Eric Jørissen - El Corte

[pianistamediano]

Locally I see the same pattern in swing and salsa. In USA if someone has to two jobs to make ends meet, there is hardly time for dancing or any other activity of leisure.

Originally tango was danced more by blue collars. Once the economics of taking lessons, etc come into the equation, those with more income tend to have an advantage.

I agree — and the dominance of dancers with disposable income and time to spare will continue to persist in tango purely because of their inherent advantages.

Relatedly, I found myself watching a chacarera dance at a marathon with much disdain and distaste. It is a folk dance from a rural part of Argentina being danced by middle class dancers, most of them amongst the """elite""" in Europe, with enough money to travel for tango and who can actually spend time on a beach without worrying about their next paycheck.

I found it all very artificial and contrived, especially since most of them have no experience outside of their middle class lives. I'm very much a part of the middle class too — it's just that I used to spend weeks every year as a child in a village near the mountains where my mother grew up, picking bamboo shoots in the forests, collecting firewood to cook our food with, avoiding piles of cow dung, falling into rice paddies, feeding chickens and pigs, and of course the ubiquitous and fear-inducing pit latrines that had to be cleared regularly by the night soil men.

I suppose it's a privilege of the higher classes to take only the palatable/attractive aspects from the lower classes and reshape them as they like.

 

[pianistamediano]

@pianistamediano hasn’t explain the meaning of the term.

It's a term that I took from @Rabbit in our many conversations, and our understanding does differ slightly, so what I write here might not be the same.

It's a style of dance currently prevalent in Europe, which you can easily observe in the vast majority of European performers. A marked tendency towards physicality, reduced subtlety, athleticism, emphasis on technique (well, Rabbit says that they're pretty so what), steps for the sake of steps, et cetera. I consider it a step towards the death of tango mainly because so many young-ish dancers (20s to perhaps early/mid 50s) try to emulate it (which I see at marathons everywhere), which just leads to ersatz carbon copies with more steps than sense.

Plus, crude musicality and lackluster subtlety. To be fair, I'm a music elitist, so I can't help but think of non-musicians as inherently crippled. It's not nice, I know.

 

[itwillhappen]

Interesting. Not here. Although a lot of techies, doctors, and finance people. Only met a couple of academics.

Here, an "academic" is someone who has completed an academic education, be it a degree in business administration, medicine or even dance or music.

 

[itwillhappen]

It's a style of dance currently prevalent in Europe, which you can easily observe in the vast majority of European performers. A marked tendency towards physicality, reduced subtlety, athleticism, emphasis on technique (well, Rabbit says that they're pretty so what), steps for the sake of steps, et cetera.

Ah, I would call that "Mundial Style".

 

[pianistamediano]

Ah, I would call that "Mundial Style".

I personally think Mundial style is even more of a cookie-cutter style that, while still quite prominent, doesn't display the amount of individuality that European Academic Tango has simply because most of EAT's proponents and flagbearers have large enough egos, since it's primarily meant to appeal to the Mundial judges.

Mundial is unoffensive; EAT tries to be daring and different and in the process everyone ends up looking like variations on some weird template.

 

[Bailango]

Mundial is unoffensive; EAT tries to be daring and different and in the process everyone ends up looking like variations on some weird template.

You make them sound like hipster equivalent of tango

A few years back there was an article of the hipsters often found in large metros like London, San Francisco, NYC, etc. The point of article was in trying to be different and individual they all end up looking similar. Similar clothing style, similar brands, similar interests, etc.

The icing on the cake was the article featured a photograph of a man to accompany the article about what a typical hipster look was. Some guy decided to sue the publication for taking his pic without his knowledge and using is without his permission. Except the pic was of a model engaged by the publication for the pics. Irony was not lost as nothing made the point (which article was about) louder than a person failing to recognize another person thinking it was him.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I suppose it's a privilege of the higher classes to take only the palatable/attractive aspects from the lower classes and reshape them as they like.

That sort of co-optation is widespread in many societies. As for chacarera, it is associated with tango (although it is folkloric) and often seems to be put forth simply as a symbol of Argentina (like tango). The local Argentines here seem to enjoy dancing to it.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Here, an "academic" is someone who has completed an academic education, be it a degree in business administration, medicine or even dance or music.

Oh, here an academic is a teacher at a university. A professor.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

EAT tries to be daring and different and in the process everyone ends up looking like variations on some weird template.

Is it tango nuevo, then?

 

[pianistamediano]

You make them sound like hipster equivalent of tango

A few years back there was an article of the hipsters often found in large metros like London, San Francisco, NYC, etc. The point of article was in trying to be different and individual they all end up looking similar. Similar clothing style, similar brands, similar interests, etc.

Sounds about right!

To be fair, I have picked up some things here and there from them. They're not altogether devoid of creativity or nuance.

I'm actually quite envious of leaders like Tymoteusz Ley or Gianpiero Galdi, if only because they've managed to find partners like Lorena Tarantino or Agnieszka Stach. I find myself wanting to experiment more and more as the years pass, and it's quite frustrating that I still can't find a regular partner who can keep up with me all while I (try and fail to) dance some ersatz canyengue to OTV, salon to Di Sarli, slow, contemplative pieces, smooth travelling valsecitos, go utterly insane on the floor, the best of Biagi, quietly dance D'Agostino, maybe even some non-tango or sensual, all-consuming alt.

(You can thank my weird tango upbringing for that, because my very first tango teachers spanned the full [?] spectrum from milonguero to nuevo.)

The majority of followers are just not flexible enough or willing to adapt. Or just too hidebound to the One True Way™ of dancing. If I can switch from being sensual to being staccato on a dime then so can they.

(But I do recognise the sheer solipsism of my statement! I beg your pardon for egocentricity by pleading my eccentricity, and I hope that I can account the rest by saying that I adapt to and accept a follower's dance too.)

 

[pianistamediano]

Is it tango nuevo, then?

I don't know? You could potentially classify some of what they do into tango nuevo, others into a variation of """Villa Urquiza"""/Salon (I hate those terms). There is a current trend at marathons of leaders holding their followers' hands in the canyengue manner while doing all sorts of things, which I'm sure they copied from the performers who started doing that in the last two years or so.

 

[Brummbaer]

 

[Bailango]

“We danced non-stop. You are weaklings needing sleep” (1:17)

He is founder of the tango marathon concept. He started dancing in 70s (as 12 year old). His parents started dancing in 20s and 30s. They danced more like miloguer@s. Which was different from ballroom in 70s.

She says he trained the first generation of tango teachers in Netherlands. They spread throughout Netherlands to teach tango. My question is how big is tango community in Netherlands. In 2000s and now ? Netherland’s population is 18 million. Our metro area is about one-third in size. When I went to milongas in Netherlands they were one-third the size of our milongas.

As we keep saying when Tango developed or danced in Argentina, there were no rules or codified dancing. He says “people who loved to dance shaped it inside out and not outside in, like it is now. Not conventional thing of shapes and steps, but shape the music according to you as a person.”

All dances from which ballroom originated were different from how ballroom is danced.

Argentinian tango was not to be found on European continent. Except through odd movies. It came first to Europe as show (Tango Argentina) after folklands war. Six communities started from learning from instructors who were part as show.

He talks about his colleagues in Europe who took to flashy way of dancing Tango. He was the only one asking how it was danced socially. A few show dancers knew and showed him/taught him. He wanted to have a social version. It is not shaped by conventions. It is dance that you cold do in any shape you want to and improvise to the music the way you want to shape it to.

I heard first 11 minutes. It is fascinating to hear him. He started dancing Tango at 24 and hard first row seat when Tango emanated outside of Argentina for first time after its revival.

 

[Bailango]

In 1989 he went to BsAs the first time. Looking for tango through connections he had he asked people where he could find social tango. People were telling him it doesn’t happen anymore in BsAs. Taxi driver said it is dead.(15:35)

It is refreshing to hear oral history first hand account of many things we know.


17:00 he saw old people in their 70s, 80s and 90s who started dancing in 1920s and 1930s. He had conversations with those who were 90 and 95 who said this is not tango (the style of 1940s). They showed. There was already a wide spectrum of how tango was danced between 1920 and 1950. This is not surprising at all. It surprises me that people assume tango was danced in a certain way in BsAs in the golden age or before/after.

Tango as asocial thing was forbidden in BsAs since 60s till end of falklands war. Milongas a word for social dancing came up in 90s. (20:48).

 

[Bailango]

Pugliese wanted to play music for the dancers. Due to clamp down from 60s he could only play music for concerts. Pugliese himself distinguished between the music for listening and music played for dancing.

Erik talks about dancing to the canned music anticipating things. Not improvising. Tango takes time. You can’t force it.