Fair payment to teacher

[DanceMentor]

In the argument between having a closed or open school, I want to make a comment. I'm going to make a few general points that are true in "most" cases:
1. Closed schools are the most profitable.
2. Open schools are usually pretty close to "break even", but often they know that, and don't care.
3. Closed schools generally start teachers at a lower wage, but the good ones offer ways to grow in the organization, from teacher to dance director to manager to studio owner.
4. Open schools usually have more competing amateur and professional couples.
5. Teachers at open schools tend to make more per hour, but have no benefits whatsoever.
6. A school can't be both. It is either open or closed. The open model will tend to win out over time.

As a teacher, if your goals are to be successful in your career, spending time with the closed schools can be a very important part of your journey, and if you dream to manage or run your own studio one day, the path to doing this is likely faster in the closed school.

I personally prefer an open school, but at the same time recognize that closed schools can be good places too, and there are benefits for both the student and the teacher.

 

[BestTeacher]

Hey, well if we're talking of national finalists or even semi-finalists, and champions, they deserve to be independents and will make it.

But so many other folks, who stopped competing early, still maybe do pro/am, and just never really achieved "amazing results"... but are still good teachers.. they may want to belong to an independent studio where they make a pretty good wage with benefits.

I am thinking, that in my studio I'd have independents teaching so they just pay $15 floor fee + teachers who want to work for a studio with the proposed pay scale. And if even the studio teacher wants to convert to being independent after some time, thats fine, he can in my own studio.
And if he finds it very hard, he can come back to being a resident teacher.

See many teachers try to go independents and then they come back and work for some studio for an average of $25/lesson because they see hard it is and how much competition there is.

mmm....most independents I know have more than 5 students. And if I was a teacher I would build a much bigger client base than that before going independent.



BT, most of the studio teachers I know want to be independent.

The good pros really don't spend $15 advertising, and in this area lessons tend to be higher than $65 (floor rent is the same). By the time they have a big enough clientele to go independent they often find students by word of mouth (and have a good reputation), and/or by competing pro-am and/or by teaching classes. Also as an independent, you control your scheduling which is a huge plus for some pros who are currently competing and desirable by those who are not. I'm not sure the argument works out that being a studio teacher is more advantageous.

You will always have teachers that do not have the pull to build big enough clientele to go independent. And these are the teachers that end up staying in the staff model.

Don't feel that I am saying that the studio teacher pricing model is bad, or that you are taking advantage of these people. You are doing the overhead work for them (finding clients, scheduling etc.) and deserve to be compensated for it. But as an argument for it being better than being independent? It wouldn't work for me for a good pro with the ability to build a cleintele.

 

[DanceMentor]

In my opinion, once you start allowing independent teachers, within a year or two you'll find that a large majority of all lessons taught will be by independents. I've seen it happen many times.

 

[BestTeacher]

I think I'd like a studio where most people are independents.....but those that feel they want to work for a studio, will make a good living as well. Actually i would argue my system eventually will make some independents maybe switch over to be resident instructors.

All you really need is maybe 2 full timers who are resident teachers, and the rest could be independents to make a studio profitable and and make all teachers happy.

The resident teachers would be happy making $28 or $32/ lesson instead of franchise $12-$20/lesson, and having the studio take care of booking their lessons, even though they never had any results and probably don't feel comfortable being independents.

And the independents would be just getting their own clientel and pay floor fee.

the only reason why resident teachers feel should make than 50%, is because they get greedy.... they look at $75/lesson charge and think they should make all of that!
$28 or $32/lesson is 40% out of the lesson... thats quite amazing for not having any risk.

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

I think I'd like a studio where most people are independents.....but those that feel they want to work for a studio, will make a good living as well. Actually i would argue my system eventually will make some independents maybe switch over to be resident instructors.

All you really need is maybe 2 full timers who are resident teachers, and the rest could be independents to make a studio profitable and and make all teachers happy.

The resident teachers would be happy making $28 or $32/ lesson instead of franchise $12-$20/lesson, and having the studio take care of booking their lessons, even though they never had any results and probably don't feel comfortable being independents.

And the independents would be just getting their own clientel and pay floor fee.

the only reason why resident teachers feel should make than 50%, is because they get greedy.... they look at $75/lesson charge and think they should make all of that!
$28 or $32/lesson is 40% out of the lesson... thats quite amazing for not having any risk.

I see one potential problem with that. Let's say you have independents who are considerably better than the staff teachers. If staff's clients see them teach, you may find them migrating towards better teachers, unless the final price difference (for the client) is big enough to prevent this.

 

[foxtrotress]

Just wanted to offer my 2 cents. When I worked at a chain studio a few years ago the highest lesson rate was $16/ lesson. And that was with no benefits. In fact, I have never have had any benefits at a single studio. But it wasn't the $16 and lack of benefits that bothered me. I understood that the owners had huge expenses; many times they were just scraping by. It was all the work I did that I didn't get paid for. This ran the gamut from acting as the receptionist, attending sales meetings, dancing at parties, cleaning the studio, decorating the studio for events, running errands for the owner, and training staff. In the real world that work is considered valuable and rewarded accordingly. My frustration derived from the fact that I was expected to work 6 days a week while only earning money fteaching lessons or part of that time. The job I held and got paid for was as a dance teacher. However, I spent much of my time acting as a cross between a personal assistant, cleaning woman, and office drone. Oftentimes I was scolded by owners for having the audacity to complain about the amount of unpaid work I did. They considered it part of the job and did not understand my frustration.

I think as a studio owner you need to take in consideration how much work the teacher is going to do outside of teaching a lesson. If you are not planning to pay them for this extra work the lesson rate needs to be high enough to guard against teacher grumblings. Of course the other option, is to allow your staff a certain amount of flexibility in scheduling their lessons so they can devote time to competing or school or another wage earning job. This would have gone along way to mitigating my frustration.

 

[fascination]

good points...and welcome

 

[Standarddancer]

oh I feel bad for you foxtrotress How could they make you clean the studio and dancing at party and not paying you? It's disgusting!!! it's like having someone working for free!!! That's not right!

 

[Easy]

Just wanted to offer my 2 cents. When I worked at a chain studio a few years ago the highest lesson rate was $16/ lesson. And that was with no benefits. In fact, I have never have had any benefits at a single studio. But it wasn't the $16 and lack of benefits that bothered me. I understood that the owners had huge expenses; many times they were just scraping by. It was all the work I did that I didn't get paid for. This ran the gamut from acting as the receptionist, attending sales meetings, dancing at parties, cleaning the studio, decorating the studio for events, running errands for the owner, and training staff. In the real world that work is considered valuable and rewarded accordingly. My frustration derived from the fact that I was expected to work 6 days a week while only earning money fteaching lessons or part of that time. The job I held and got paid for was as a dance teacher. However, I spent much of my time acting as a cross between a personal assistant, cleaning woman, and office drone. Oftentimes I was scolded by owners for having the audacity to complain about the amount of unpaid work I did. They considered it part of the job and did not understand my frustration.

I think as a studio owner you need to take in consideration how much work the teacher is going to do outside of teaching a lesson. If you are not planning to pay them for this extra work the lesson rate needs to be high enough to guard against teacher grumblings. Of course the other option, is to allow your staff a certain amount of flexibility in scheduling their lessons so they can devote time to competing or school or another wage earning job. This would have gone along way to mitigating my frustration.

Sounds like you worked for a mizer.

 

[Easy]

oh I feel bad for you foxtrotress How could they make you clean the studio and dancing at party and not paying you? It's disgusting!!! it's like having someone working for free!!! That's not right!

She was working for free. If my teachers do cleaning or most other type of extra work, they get paid for it.

 

[dancingirldancing]

The owner told me I was like a car salesman. I needed to keep the car shiney and pretty on the lot, but only got paid when it sold. So it was my duty to keep the studio spiffy too.

Funny you mention car salesman.... DH just told our Pro yesterday that one studio we used to go to is run like a used car yard LOL....

Luckily we only lasted about 10 lesson there !

I do not understand how studios cannot live on floor rent. The independent studio I go to is a dancesport studio. The owner is a pro who teaches about 30 hours week. He does not have anyone working for him only a couple of amateur champions renting floor space for about $20 to teach (about 3-4 people doing less than 10 hours a week each. He charged $70/lesson and only do competition couples. Then again, I guess one cannot get rich running a studio like that. BUT, it is doable if one intention is to advance dancesport instead of making lots of money.

 

[BestTeacher]

reply

i understand what you mean, however I don;t look at it as a paycut, since most studios don't even start you off at $20/lessons sometimes..... its more of a minimum to keep you above water during that one week of Christmas time if people decide to take it easy!

The incentive is the fact that you teach more.... some studios only just give $24/lesson... and want you to teach 35 lessons/week.... where is the incentive there?... in my system the incentive is to teach more.... the whole point of of full- timer is to teach at least 25 lessons a week, and make some good money, otherwise why is he doing this as full timer in the first place?

I taught for a studio for about 1.5 years, and I have never gone down below 20 lessons... actually for the most part its been 26-30 lessons on average/week thats working 5 days a week only.

That is usually what happens. Most mixed studios have problems keeping the staff happy as they see the independants come and go and make more. Most students generally gravitate towards the independant teachers who are often more experienced and further along in their career. Independants rarely if ever go back to being staff. I tried going back (thinking it would be easier and less stressful) and soon realized it was a huge step in the wrong direction for me.

I have been on all three sides of the coin... staff, owner, independant. And all of them are very valid and make the industry work well. They just often do not work well together as they all have different goals.

Most independant teachers feel they are worth a certain amount regardless of how much they teach. If I teach 1 lesson a week or 50, my lesson and time is worth the same.

Just a basic example using OPs numbers.

An Independant teaches a 40 hour week and makes $1440 (although we acknowledge the net is often far more than this)
An Independant teaches a 20 hour week and makes $720

A Staff teacher teaches 40 hours a week and makes $1440
A Staff teacher teaches a 20 hour week and makes $400.

 

[wooh]

I do not understand how studios cannot live on floor rent. The independent studio I go to is a dancesport studio. The owner is a pro who teaches about 30 hours week. He does not have anyone working for him only a couple of amateur champions renting floor space for about $20 to teach (about 3-4 people doing less than 10 hours a week each. He charged $70/lesson and only do competition couples. Then again, I guess one cannot get rich running a studio like that. BUT, it is doable if one intention is to advance dancesport instead of making lots of money.

It's doable if one's intention is to advance dancesport instead of paying their own rent or buying groceries.

Do you have any idea what commercial rent is like? Or heating and cooling a space big enough for a studio? Like easy and larinda will tell you, it's a LOT of overhead in a dance studio. A studio can theoretically live on floor rent, there are a few that do. But you've got to to get a lot of floor rent coming in. Say even at $20 a lesson, it takes a lot of those to add up to the $5-10k+ just in rent, not including all the other overhead expenses. It's not greed that drives other business models, it's the need to make a living.

 

[quixotedlm]

The incentive is the fact that you teach more.... some studios only just give $24/lesson... and want you to teach 35 lessons/week.... where is the incentive there?... in my system the incentive is to teach more.... the whole point of of full- timer is to teach at least 25 lessons a week, and make some good money, otherwise why is he doing this as full timer in the first place?

It seems like dance studio owners as a class haven't put in much thought into how a teacher's performance is evaluated (in the context of value to the business), and how to reward those who are better for business.

All I've seen in this thead thus far is that volume is rewarded. Volume is certainly a reasonable indicator of 'value for business', it can't be that simple - right? For eg,one teacher might be bringing in a lot of business and generating reputation, but may not be able to handle all that volume. Another teacher might sign up to teach lots of hours simply because the volume of students exists (thanks to teacher #1). They both max out their hours and get paid the same. Where is the incentive for good work here?

In different walks of life and professions, a 'full timer' doesn't necessarily do 'work' for 40 or more hours a week. Sometimes you work more, and sometimes you work less - and it amortizes out. Your 'salary' doesn't track the hours worked - it stays constant. But other factors like bonuses etc. come into play when you have accomplished something really great. I just don't see a mature compensation/reward model being discussed here. Maybe that's the state of affairs in the industry - but if you can figure out how to do this better, you might end up creating a significantly successful business.

 

[BestTeacher]

so please let me know how my system of reward can be improved??

Or any compensation that you think is better

..... remember, think like an owner here....and this is strictly for teachers working for a studio, not independents.