Follower connections with partner and floor.

[ardix]

It's only controversial when you call it "back-leading," so call it "follower propositions."

Actually, more than follower "propositions" ... I really mean back-leading like in co-leading with my back. But yes, I am in for the conversation, not for the monologue.

 

[JournalInTime]

Oh, literally leading with your back! That's cool. "Back-leading" also has a specific meaning to most partner dancers – the decision on a step is made by the follower, not the leader. I'd point you to an Internet search except that they're all seriously negative about it, in part because in competitive disciplines, it's seen as a way to lose points.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Most followers are not taught to fill the embrace. They are only told to connect at the chest and something vague about “intention”.

The are told to balance on one leg at a time and something vague about “using the floor”.

By the time teachers get around to followers’ technical learning (around the three year mark) the dancers themselves are usually finished with lessons.

Yes, but there lots of specific classes for women's technique that do address such questions.

 

[Brummbaer]

and something vague about “intention”.

I thought I knew what intention meant until a recent workshop. We've always been told about intention and using the floor. We had some exercises from an Argentinian couple based around 8CB (because of the back, the side, the forward, and adjusting the torso for the cross) and just walking - in time, half-time and quarter-time - with intention and more specifically the time spent on each aspect of a step. I think it changed both mine and my partner's perception of intention from something we were vaguely doing to a specific.

Something changed, which I can only put down to being ready for that revelation.

 

[tangoing]

A follower being balanced is ideal, but if I had to choose between the extreme of too airy or too earthy, I’d chose airy every time. When I mean too earthy I imagine a beginner who is very heavy set weight wise and not flexible at all. With too airy there’s no dialogue but at least you can semi control the movement and the speed of it, whereas when it’s too earthy every move seems like a chore.
My favorite followers have generally been ex ballerinas. Their overall posture and balance have been a notch or two above the average regular follower.

 

[itwillhappen]

I think it changed both mine and my partner's perception of intention from something we were vaguely doing to a specific. Something changed, which I can only put down to being ready for that revelation.

Unfortunately, one cannot know in advance at which workshops such insights will emerge, and that has rarely been the case. I remember maybe five.

 

[Rabbit]

Unfortunately, one cannot know in advance at which workshops such insights will emerge, and that has rarely been the case. I remember maybe five.

Of course. Most of the changes come from within oneself. Most information won't make sense until one is already close to being able to implement it, and only if it is in accordance with one's internal framework.

 

[LadyLeader]

Unfortunately, one cannot know in advance at which workshops such insights will emerge, and that has rarely been the case. I remember maybe five.

I think that a ws without insights can still be useful and take me forward.
Certain skills, ideas have been so unfamiliar, strange to me that i needed several wks to grasp them. It is like starting at the bottom of a pond and then need to work a lot through the deep waters until one day you break the surface!

I have tried to boost the *swimming upwards* by systematic watching my earlier ws summaries and preparing some weeks for a coming workshop with visiting teachers.

 

[JournalInTime]

I have tried to boost the *swimming upwards* by systematic watching my earlier ws summaries and preparing some weeks for a coming workshop with visiting teachers.

That's interesting, because I think I work almost the opposite way!

I find that shortly after a workshop or private lesson, explicit "homework" – meaning practice – is valuable. However, "shortly" is the operative word! Preparation immediately prior to the next session actually slows my learning, because it crowds my conscious tango mind and leaves me unready to receive more insight. I find that going in with only the parts I fully retained from the last time means I approach the lesson with know-how and thus assuredness rather than expectation and thus hesitation.

That's probably a testament to personality type. I do the same thing with writing at my day job: Write, do an immediate pass to clean it up, drop it to go work on something else, and then return to it eventually with a clear head and the aim to finish it. I find it hard to revise my own work if I'm immersed in it. I need to come back to it almost as if it were the work of someone else, partially forgotten, to get the best results.

Same with tango lessons: I need to come back to a topic with only what I remembered after a break, and revisit the parts I didn't retain as if they were totally new. Those click after the second or third exposure.

 

[LadyLeader]

I find that shortly after a workshop or private lesson, explicit "homework" – meaning practice – is valuable. However, "shortly" is the operative word! Preparation immediately prior to the next session actually slows my learning, because it crowds my conscious tango mind and leaves me unready to receive more insight. I find that going in with only the parts I fully retained from the last time means I approach the lesson with know-how and thus assuredness rather than expectation and thus hesitation.

That's probably a testament to personality type.

I think one big difference is the way we have developed our skill and understanding for tango. Most of my training has been on unique, single workshops or weekends. I have returned to some teachers for several workshops but many are just one time meetings. (This has been the situation for my local tango generation so one teacher uses it as a sales pitch - Your technique is like a patch work. I can fix it! )

When I mention the preparations it was not for an ongoing course but for a single workshop, to get more out of those 1.5h. If the ws theme was sacadas I checked them on teachers' yt videos during last six months. Then I learned and run them with my ws partner. On the actual ws it was easier to learn the figure (mostly) and I could focus on the deeper details the teachers were talking about. Earlier I lost those things when focusing on step learning. Weeks after the ws we met at a practica. This gave me 4 weeks training instead of only 1,5h.

I am not sure if I have correct understood your technique but for my solid learning the rest is as important as the activity. I review a group of figures and techniques for some days (visually/physically), next week another group and after a few weeks the group 1 is activated again.

A personal thing is maybe my crusade for flipped learning. Meaning that I really like to learn the material on my own at home and after that I ask a teacher to give feedback and suggest corrections!

 

[JournalInTime]

Most part of my training has been on unique, single workshops or weekends.

Yes, I can see how that would make a difference.

My early training was going through the six-tier level system of a school, taking classes for hours a week over the course of a couple of years.

In the middle of that journey, I phased in regular private lessons. In general, those have been weekly with one teacher, but there were periods where they were weekly with two or even three teachers.

Overlapping that for a long time was re-doing the level system of that school as an accompanier, over and over and over again. I redid the basics 10-15 times in many cases.

Now I work with a regular coach.

Whereas one-off workshops, festivals, sessions with touring masters, etc. . . . I've done all of those, but they're an inconsequential drop in the bucket next to the hundreds and hundreds of hours – maybe thousands of hours – all of that other stuff represents.

Which suits me just fine, because I'm not excessively fond of celebrity teachers and big events. I prefer to work with a stable group and develop a long-term mentor-mentee relationship.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I thought I knew what intention meant until a recent workshop. We've always been told about intention and using the floor. We had some exercises from an Argentinian couple based around 8CB (because of the back, the side, the forward, and adjusting the torso for the cross) and just walking - in time, half-time and quarter-time - with intention and more specifically the time spent on each aspect of a step. I think it changed both mine and my partner's perception of intention from something we were vaguely doing to a specific.

Something changed, which I can only put down to being ready for that revelation.

Well, don't keep us waiting, what was the revelation?

 

[Brummbaer]

Well, don't keep us waiting, what was the revelation?

As has already been hinted, everyone realises something about their dancing in their own way at their own time in their tango journey.

On the other hand, I could write the book, create the course method and sell the videos online after consulting the thesaurus for alternatives to intention.

The underlying point is that we think we've mastered something, and understand the technique, but then something works for you in understanding connection with your dance partner, and using the floor which brings those vague words alive. Despite having done that many times previously, it may just be a different description, or repetition, or a breakdown of timing.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The underlying point is that we think we've mastered something, and understand the technique, but then something works for you in understanding connection with your dance partner, and using the floor which brings those vague words alive. Despite having done that many times previously, it may just be a different description, or repetition, or a breakdown of timing.

So, sounds like a question of insight into the process. Yeah, I guess. Sometimes something clicks and enables us to move up to a new way of dancing.

 

[itwillhappen]

I think Susana Miller would probably say the same thing. Those seasoned dancers really want to feel your energy. You have to be totally engaged, no half measures. Those seasoned dancers really want to feel your energy. You have to be totally engaged, no half measures.

What is said without a practical calibration is pretty much worthless here.
Susana is a yoga teacher also, so it's more about presence, focus and disarmament at the basis.
"Seasoned dancers" might misinterpret "totally engaged", might be to seasoned to follow (her concepts), in my opinon.