Followers' proficiency

[New in NY]

Followers, for how long and with what frequency did you take lessons before you felt reasonably comfortable dancing at a milonga? - able to follow a leader you had never danced with before and with your footwork fairly neat?

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Followers, for how long and with what frequency did you take lessons before you felt reasonably comfortable dancing at a milonga? - able to follow a leader you had never danced with before and with your footwork fairly neat?

It's hard to subjectively judge one's neatness of footwork. However, very subjectively, I would say I felt like I was able to dance with virtually anyone (although it did not mean that I would want to ) and make it look at least OK about a year and a half - two years down the road. At the time I was spending anything from 8 to 18 hours a week doind tango (lessons, practicas, practice sessions, milongas).
Hope it helps.

 

[Peaches]

Meh. I felt comfortable more-or-less right away. My leaders might have had a different opinion on the matter.

Besides, I tend to be horribly uncomfortable in most social situations, so the additional lack of comfort from being a beginner barely registered. (And I was so head-over-heels in love with AT that I barely noticed anyhow...ignorance is bliss.)

I let leaders know I was a beginner. Sure, they probably knew anyhow, but I still told them. I figured at that point it was up to them to lead appropriate (basic, simple) things. If they tried to get fancy and I couldn't keep up...well, that reflects worse on them than it does on a beginning follower.

IMO, to wait until you're "good enough" just gives you time to build up the fear in your head. Go, have a good time. So you're just starting and you suck? So what? You're a beginner...you're supposed to suck! Enjoy it! (Before you can't really use the beginner excuse to cover poor technique and you have to really take responsibility for it! )

 

[Zoopsia59]

Followers, for how long and with what frequency did you take lessons before you felt reasonably comfortable dancing at a milonga? - able to follow a leader you had never danced with before and with your footwork fairly neat?

I don't think I can answer that... I was dancing at a milonga with my teacher very early on. I struggled with many of the other leaders though. However, the better leaders didn't dance with me, so....

I think I was probably reasonably ok before I felt MYSELF that I was ok. I actually did ok with some strangers in NYC while I was still struggling in dances with local leaders. I finally took a few privates with the teacher who was the more popular teacher here, and told him I wanted to be able to follow better... not jut follow someone well only after dancing with them 10 times.

He told me that I actually was a very good follower, and that if I was having trouble with the people I was dancing with, it wasn't me. (part of me wanted to say... "then its YOU, because they're all YOUR students!" but that wouldn't be fair)

Amazingly, as soon as I got independent validation, I relaxed and my following was better even with those local leaders that I'd struggled with.

Part of the problem all along was the quality of their lead. Combine that with the fact that they were dancing primarily nuevo open embrace and I had been taught primarily in milonguero CE... well... the process took awhile. Even after dancing in open, I still had to work on controlling my balance in changing embraces... I tended to automatically go into to much lean in close which made opening very difficult.

I'd say my biggest obstacle was my confidence. Even now I get nervous sometimes and worry that a leader will not enjoy our dance. However this is often due less to the quality of the leader and more to the 'judgmental vibe" I get from him or from his reputation.

And sometimes what happens when I dance with a total stranger is that I have no expectations, and I'm relaxed... then when I realize he's really good, I start to worry and the 2nd dance in the tanda gets stiffer as we go and I have to make an effort to remind myself that I'm NOT chopped liver and that I CAN do this and do it well. Then the rest of the tanda goes well.

I think the point is that I had issues beyond learning the dance. I think this is true for many people although it varies what their issues are and how they overcome them, and how long that takes. (I also had a great deal of trouble learning to trust the leader to keep me safe while I was blind to what was gonna happen behind me)

So how long? Well, when I get to the point of feeling I can follow most anyone and be neat with my feet and go to milongas where I don't know anyone without being nervous... I'll let you know!

 

[Peaches]

I don't think I can answer that... I was dancing at a milonga with my teacher very early on. I struggled with many of the other leaders though. However, the better leaders didn't dance with me, so....

I think I was probably reasonably ok before I felt MYSELF that I was ok. I actually did ok with some strangers in NYC while I was still struggling in dances with local leaders. I finally took a few privates with the teacher who was the more popular teacher here, and told him I wanted to be able to follow better... not jut follow someone well only after dancing with them 10 times.

He told me that I actually was a very good follower, and that if I was having trouble with the people I was dancing with, it wasn't me.

Amazingly, as soon as I got independent validation, I relaxed and my following was better even with those local leaders that I'd struggled with.

But part of the problem all along was the quality of their lead. Combine that with the fact that they were dancing primarily open embrace and I had been taught primarily on CE... well... the process took awhile.

I'd say my biggest obstacle was my confidence. Even now I get nervous sometimes and worry that a leader will not enjoy our dance.

And sometimes what happens when I dance with a total stranger is that I have no expectations, and I'm relaxed... then when I realize he's really good, I start to worry and the 2nd dance in the tanda gets stiffer as we go and I have to make an effort to remind myself that I'm NOT chopped liver and that I CAN do this and do it well. Then the rest of the tanda goes well.

I think the point is that I had issues beyond learning the dance. I think this is true for many people although it varies what their issues are and how they overcome them, and how long that takes. (I also had a great deal of trouble learning to trust the leader to keep me safe while I was blind to what was gonna happen behind me)

So how long? Well, when I get to the point of feeling I can follow most anyone and be neat with my feet and go to milongas where I don't know anyone without being nervous... I'll let you know!

Bingo.

 

[Mladenac]

Followers, for how long and with what frequency did you take lessons before you felt reasonably comfortable dancing at a milonga? - able to follow a leader you had never danced with before and with your footwork fairly neat?

I know that I shouln't write here since I am a leader.

Some followers are great immediately cause they are comfortable with their bodies and are not afraid of new men.

I danced with some follower that dance by heart after quite long time (2-3yrs).
They have the same teachers that I have. They missed sth during the lessons.

What you asked is clearly depending on the person.
But what I noticed for followers is 6-12 months of dancing to feel comfortable and to follow majority of elements that they are led.

That period depends on person and how that person was taught.
Sometimes it takes much longer.

 

[ant]

Followers, for how long and with what frequency did you take lessons before you felt reasonably comfortable dancing at a milonga? - able to follow a leader you had never danced with before and with your footwork fairly neat?

I am probabally nearer to a beginner level leader than most other guys on this forum. As far as I am concerned I am happy to dance with any follower that can

- distinguish my lead between a step and a pivot after we have done a step and
- go with what they feel rather than what they think

As far as I can tell most of the practise you get from AT is within the dance itself. So the sooner you are able to get get out there and dance the more you will learn.

 

[mkjohnson]

umm.. pretty much what Peaches and Zoopsia said. It really depends if you mean "comfortable" at the milongas - pretty much within a month, and "competent" at the milongas - which still varies by night.

I started dancing in the milongas after about 3 weeks, but I was dancing between 15-20 hours a week. I now dance between 12-15 hours a week. But being comfortable going to a milonga and attempting to dance is different than being comfortable with my dancing. It's been a bit over a year - and some nights I'm totally comfortable dancing with strangers and confident that I'll "get" their leads. Other nights it all falls apart and I feel like I'm back at square one. It just depends.

I've had "advanced" (for whatever that term is worth - dancing for many years, in this case) leaders tell me I'm very natural and skilled, and follow well. I've had different "advanced" leaders tell me I'm doing all sorts of things wrong. *shrug* Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Everyone can tell me I'm awesome, I can even feel pretty awesome about myself (I'll send a memo if that every happens), and still have a craptastic-was-that-a-cross-lead-I-just-missed dance with someone. That life (and tango).

 

[Mladenac]

Sometimes it's crappy night or crappy leader

 

[New in NY]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I should clarify that I am not avoiding milongas until I feel entirely proficient (I have been to a few), I am simply curious at what point in their practice others felt competent. I have been studying AT for about a year and a half with weekly group lessons and privates with my husband an average of 2x/month for the past several months. We go to practicas or practice at home an average of about 5 hours a week, so I guess significantly less than several of you. (Wow! Everyone's passion for the dance is wonderful.) I have no dance background and no aptitude for dance (not being self-deprecating, it is what it is), but so far I find it easier to follow in ballroom/Latin (even if I am being led steps I do not know) than in AT, although I spend more time with AT.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I find it easier to follow in ballroom/Latin (even if I am being led steps I do not know) than in AT, although I spend more time with AT.

I think that's probably because there is more consistency between leaders in ballroom. If there are 2 AT teachers in your area, you are likley to have 2 very different styles being taught. If you have 12 ballroom teachers, you are still going to have only 2 styles being taught (american and international) with maybe some variations based on whether the teachers are actually all qualified.

Ballroom is just more standardized, and there are more people doing it most places. So you're going to run into more good leaders, and the good leaders are going to be more similar to one another than the good tango leaders (who are fewer to begin with) There is also more chance that other ballroom dancers learned the same steps that you did at the same level, so even if you are dancing with someone at your level, they will match up to you better than someone at your level in AT.

NYC (if that's where you are) has a very large AT community, but also has many teachers all emphasizing different things and teaching different styles. In some ways that's good.. but in others, it can make the learning curve much steeper.

 

[New in NY]

I think that's probably because there is more consistency between leaders in ballroom.

Thank you, this makes perfect sense and comforts me a bit! And yes, I take lessons in Manhattan.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Great topic. I enjoyed reading everyone's responses.

I would also like to add that dancing and practicing Argentine tango mostly with one person (especially if that person is a beginner, like yourself) not equals dancing and practicing with several people of different levels. I believe that regularly following leaders who are good and confident in their skills, who know what they are doing contributes greatly to followers development and confidence.

But not to worry, as everyone said, in any case your personal mileage may vary depending on many factors. As long as you are trying to make the best out of your particular situation, working on your progress, everything is going fine.

 

[dchester]

All I'll say is that pretty much every follower picked this stuff up a lot quicker than I did.

(but then again, a lot of leaders did too.)

:headwall:

 

[AndaBien]

...
I would also like to add that dancing and practicing Argentine tango mostly with one person (especially if that person is a beginner, like yourself) not equals dancing and practicing with several people of different levels. I believe that regularly following leaders who are good and confident in their skills, who know what they are doing contributes greatly to followers development and confidence.
...

I agree. Much of what followers need to learn is how to dance with the great variety of leaders found at milongas, and that comes mainly from long experience on the dance floor. It's easy to become habituated to leaders who you are familiar with.