Following, Technique, Musicality--How to Keep it All Going?

[Peaches]

OK, so I don't know about any of you, but it seems like I can focus on about 2 things (or maybe 3, on a good day) at once, but the rest of it all goes to hell. I can focus on the music and my technique, or following and my technique, or following and the music...but invariable trying to do all of it well means that I end up doing none of it well. Does anyone have any tips for putting it all together? Or is this just a situation where it's going to take time and practice and experience so that more and more can run on autopilot?

 

[jhpark]

pick one or two things to focus on but rotate them every tanda?

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

OK, so I don't know about any of you, but it seems like I can focus on about 2 things (or maybe 3, on a good day) at once, but the rest of it all goes to hell. I can focus on the music and my technique, or following and my technique, or following and the music...but invariable trying to do all of it well means that I end up doing none of it well. Does anyone have any tips for putting it all together? Or is this just a situation where it's going to take time and practice and experience so that more and more can run on autopilot?

I usually focus on one or two things while practicing. Well, I would not pretend that it is really possible to turn the rest of them off completely or hold my focus on one thing the entire practice session but at least I try to prioritize.
Hopefully in the long run the improvement happens, and, yes, more and more can run on autopilot when I am dancing and getting in the zone at a milonga.

I also found out that working on the advanced stuff helps. Some things simply do not happen unless quite a few right habits have already been internalized by the body. There I cannot get away with not-so-good technique or with too much thinking (while on the simplier steps I probably could and have got). Great for improving your dancing overall.

 

[Steve Pastor]

I don't follow much, although I'm confident enough in doing it that I always offer to do so to let someone feel things from the leader's viewpoint. But, getting to the point of things working without having to be conscious of them is sort of the same for both sides of the embrace.

Reading about all the "fancy moves" that many of you learn makes me think that the bar is being held quite high for many of you.
Many of those beautiful people who are making a living dancing AT have had years of training in various kinds of dance. They make the high energy, high stakes stuff look easy.

I watch all the hot young couples doing their thing even here in Portland at our humble Sunday practica, and I think, OK, wow, finally someone who does that stuff and is actually doing it to the music! And you know, when I almost get boleoed, I think, ... Well, you can guess.

Somewhere along the line (actually, I can pretty much tell you when), I began to accept that I was "good enough". I can also tell you about when I realized that I had been leading in time to the music, using my torso, and getting the responses I wanted from my partner, and I hadn't been thinking about every part of what I had been doing.

I've learned all of these dances to either experience as feeling of satisfaction (tango itself, line dances that were difficult to master, etc), or to have a social outlet and to have fun.

I loved it when a young guy said to me (I think) that I could take lessons to learn the line dances. I no longer care if I do it "right". In fact, I like getting lost. Sometimes I will do something "wrong" just to see how I can get back to where I'm supposed to be.

A few weeks ago someone I had been helping get better said "We should enter a competition". She may have been kidding, but I had to say that I don't much care what judges think about my dancing. If I can enjoy myself when I dance with people who think about the dance the same way I do, or at least act like it, I am happy.

I will never be Pablo Veron. Nor will I ever be Alex Krebs. I don't dance with the "best dancers" here in Portland. I figure if they like what they see, they will give me some kind of sign, and I don't get those vibes. On the other hand, I will on occasion glimpse someone looking my way and smiling as I dance.

It was very, very tough to decide to stop taking lessons. OMG, that's like heresy! But there is a point of diminishing returns to almost every endeavor.

And, I know lots of guys who almost never dance in time to the music, let alone be expressive musically, and they are very popular with the women. Part of it is personality, but part of it is that they don't challenge the women to dance better.

My approach to AT, and now all partner dances, is to concentrate on a very small set of basics that are the core of what makes all of the other things possible. If your partner the leader knows how to use those things, you will have a pretty big vocabulary. If he doesn't, well, you just make the best of it.
I'm very serious when I say that the occasional missed lead, etc, keeps both partners "on their toes" and hones skills of improvising. I don't want perfect partners. Boring!

All of that said, yes you get better the more you do it, as long as you keep trying. Trying, though, is not the same as obsessing.

And now, to destroy any credibility I may have regarding AT, I paraphrase from Hank Williams Jr.'s "Family Tradtion"...
If I'm down in a milonga
Some Porteno's tryin to give me corrections
I'll say leave me alone
I'm dancin all night long
it's a family tradition

Steve
former resident of Martinsburg, WV
maybe that explains it

 

[Steve Pastor]

Yikes! I'm not done yet. Maybe because I went to an important (to us) neighborhood meeting last night instead of dancing.

Is there any chance that one of the guys you dance with, who you can tell is pretty good, and with whom you have a rapport, would be willing to talk to you about this and give you some feedback? Even at a milonga you could compare notes between dances, or off the floor. I think you will find that different guys will notice different things, but if you are very selective, and they are willing to throw some things at you that you want to improve...
As others wrote, concentrate on one aspect of your dance at a time.
I know that when I dance with people, and find that they don't handle something well, I just don't go there. Since I dance at a practica, if I feel the woman is open, I might ask her to "do something for me".
I really think that partners not communicating which each other, (at least to the limits of the relationship, place, and time) deprives many of us the chance to "learn from our mistakes".

 

[Joy In Motion]

Relaxed Concentration

I remember when I first started learning how to move my hips correctly in salsa. There were three or four aspects of the technique, definitely too many to try to do all at once. So I would only focus on one each night when I went out social dancing. If I tried to do them all at once, I ended up doing none of them, so I kept at it one at a time. It took a little while, but I remember one day all of a sudden my hips just started to move "on their own" and suddenly all of the pieces came together. Now it is second nature and I never think about it.

When I started learning Argentine tango (and now as I venture into other dances now and then), I was lucky enough to have already went through that experience. So I really do believe that you should focus your attention on one thing at a time so you can develop muscle memory. And while you are focusing on something else, your body is still assimilating that other information even when you aren't thinking about it. Like they say about sleeping - your body can actually assimilate new information and habits even as you are resting, so resting from one concept to focus on another is still productive.

Even when you are not actually dancing yourself, just thinking about that concept or watching others dance and seeing how it applies to their dancing or even imagining yourself doing it are great tools. I think your body unconsciously absorbs information; sometimes we just need to get out of the way and not be so hard on ourselves. I have been reading a lot about flow in sports lately and contemplating how it applies to dance, and one concept I like is called "relaxed concentration." It may seem like an oxymoron, but actually it holds the key to relaxing while practicing new concepts so that it begins to feel natural in our body instead of feeling like something foreign that the body must protect itself from.

 

[Me]

I think there is a lot to the "practice until it is on autopilot" method. I try to leave all thoughts about working technique in the classroom.

The more I think when I dance, the more mistakes I make. When I go out dancing, I must empty my mind from partner to partner. When I pair up with a new partner the first thing I do is focus only on staying balanced and quiet. Even the voice in my head talking about technique has to be quiet. Then, I wait for my partner and sense where his center is traveling. Then depending on the style or the music, I choose one general focus. Maybe I'll focus on my footwork in closed-embrace, or maybe I will concentrate on larger hesitated strides for nuevo... Embellishments just seem to happen after that point. When I think too much my mind is telling my body what to do, and when I think about doing something, invariably my reaction is too slow and my muscles tense.

 

[Aurora]

I also try to leave any conscious thoughts about technique in the classroom/practica. When out at a milonga, I want to focus on following and musicality. Every once in a while I might consider technique (especially in a moment where my attention is drawn to it), but for the most part I work on getting the technique into my muscle memory so that I don't have to think about it - especially because thinking about it inevitably makes me lose the connection with my partner, the music, basically everything that makes dancing fun!

 

[Angel HI]

...for the most part I work on getting the technique into my muscle memory so that I don't have to think about it - especially because thinking about it inevitably makes me lose the connection with my partner, the music, basically everything that makes dancing fun!

Of course, this is the goal of every dancer...to not have to think about the technique. But, you did not list 'everything' that makes dancing fun. It has always been one of my goals, as a teacher, to get the learner to the point where they understand that the proper technique is also part of what makes dancing fun. Without the proper technique, one can never feel all that the dance has to offer.

 

[Aurora]

I should have clarified: As a life-long dancer of many genres (social & others), I am very aware that technique is a necessary part of the success of any dance. However, I have found from experience that no matter what kind of dance I am doing, I need to get to the point where the technique is in my muscle memory before stepping out on stage/onto the social dance floor. If I have to very consciously think about technique the whole time I am dancing, I tend to not only have less fun but also tend to create more problems than I solve (i.e. not listening enough to my partner, tensing up in other parts of my body, etc). So what I meant to say was that you need technique at the milonga, but it needs to not be at the center of your conscious mind.

 

[Dave Bailey]

OK, so I don't know about any of you, but it seems like I can focus on about 2 things (or maybe 3, on a good day) at once, but the rest of it all goes to hell.

Yes. That's exactly how I feel. You are not alone!

So as a leader, at the moment, I can focus on 2 of (say):
- floorcraft
- leading clearly
- musicality
- technique
- posture
- style

Generally, that order is the order I try to prioritize. So floorcraft is the most important, followed by leading clearly. Somethimes I get musicality in. But everything else is a no-go

However, a year ago, I'd have only managed 1-2 of those, rather than 2-3 - so I suspect that, like everything, you get to be consciously competent at some things given enough time.

 

[Peaches]

Crap! *whine* I want to master them now!! *end whine*

 

[bordertangoman]

Crap! *whine* I want to master them now!! *end whine*

Granted; your wish is my command

 

[bordertangoman]

Yes. That's exactly how I feel. You are not alone!

So as a leader, at the moment, I can focus on 2 of (say):
- floorcraft
- leading clearly
- musicality
- technique
- posture
- style

Generally, that order is the order I try to prioritize. So floorcraft is the most important, followed by leading clearly. Somethimes I get musicality in. But everything else is a no-go
.

style and posture are superfluous while dancing they are things you should work on in a practica.

musicality should ALWAYS have 51% of your attention ( or its not dancing)
Leading clearly is more important than floorcraft and you cant have floor craft without a good lead.
Technique comes with practice; but it is better to have good connection with the music and simple technique than good technique and no connection to the music (as a follower friend often complains; "they're just not listening to the music; they don't know its there.")

 

[Me]

style and posture are superfluous while dancing they are things you should work on in a practica.

I disagree! If I as a follow paid no attention to my posture while dancing with you, you would complain (and have every right to do so) about how heavy I felt, how poor my balance is, how non-existant my follow is... I would make you miserable!

musicality should ALWAYS have 51% of your attention ( or its not dancing)
Leading clearly is more important than floorcraft and you cant have floor craft without a good lead.
Technique comes with practice; but it is better to have good connection with the music and simple technique than good technique and no connection to the music (as a follower friend often complains; "they're just not listening to the music; they don't know its there.")

YES!!! I don't know why after about the four month mark some leads decide they must get fancy. But, this is a problem for follows as well. They go out and buy Comme il Fauts and then proceed to fling wild unlead boleos with dead fish feet, plow through multiple ochos even though only one was led... I could go on and on.