For Leads: Do you watch how a follower dances before inviting her?

[opendoor]

..the more 'seasoned' vets at our studio.. swings his arm around... might come from his experience with tango nuevo, but not really sure..

I'm not sure, but remote diagnosis always is difficult. The tango styles spread across the country in waves. The nuevo dancers now are in their 50s, the milonguero stylists are in their 60s. Those who are even older had learned a scaled-down version of escenario. This group in particular shakes their arms. Personally, I have always found it important to master several styles.

 

[Brummbaer]

I think it's just bad technique or form. I see it most often in nuevo dancers who like to move everything around.

I'd put it down to yet another 'style'. I've seen it sometimes on old films, which usually gave a stereotype. Mainly, the aim seems to be calm in the upper body. Sometimes you see bouncing along with arm movement (not just poor milonga), which looks bad.

Another 'style' seems to be a prominent 'V' (not the slight 'V' of Villa Urquiza) from the closed side; the follower almost under the leader's arm. Sometimes coupled with bending forward and the leader's head almost looking down (not at her cleavage!). Again, seen that sometimes in old films. We have one leader who dances like that. Unfortunately he's also quite short, so it's not a good look. It doesn't work nowadays for any rotation since it's better for the head, which is heavy, to be above the centre of rotation.

The underlying issue is that there's no single 'authentic' AT, but various styles, originally maybe from each barrio, but nowadays from teachers or attempted crossovers with other dance styles. Someone saw some show number once and thought it was a good idea, and 'authentic'.

I'd say these are all good reasons to get a critical review of your dancing occasionally, or to video yourself, just to see how you really look (but, of course, no one's watching and it's about the soul connection during that magic tanda). Set a good 'style' yourself.

 

[Brummbaer]

After a while you can tell the difference. And ordinary dress high heels never work in tango. The worst of the worst are those hideous chunky black practice sneakers (shoes). A good pair of tango shoes can really make the outfit sing.

But can they dance the Argentine Tango?

 

[itwillhappen]

I'd say these are all good reasons to get a critical review of your dancing occasionally, or to video yourself, just to see how you really look (but, of course, no one's watching and it's about the soul connection during that magic tanda). Set a good 'style' yourself.

In general, it could be promising to watch yourself more than your potential dance partner. When am I happy? What are my preferences? Where do I position myself? How do I like to invite? Why is my belly so fat?
I recently noticed that I dance better with an empty stomach, that I feel my partners better, for more tandas. Hopefully that will also solve the problem of being slightly overweight since the corona pandemic.

 

[itwillhappen]

In general, it could be promising to watch yourself more than your potential dance partner. When am I happy? What are my preferences? Where do I position myself? How do I like to invite? Why is my belly so fat?
I recently noticed that I dance better with an empty stomach, that I feel my partners better, for more tandas. Hopefully that will also solve the problem of being slightly overweight since the corona pandemic.

 

[Brummbaer]

In general, it could be promising to watch yourself more than your potential dance partner. When am I happy? What are my preferences? Where do I position myself? How do I like to invite? Why is my belly so fat?
I recently noticed that I dance better with an empty stomach, that I feel my partners better, for more tandas. Hopefully that will also solve the problem of being slightly overweight since the corona pandemic.

Yes, it's worse than first hearing your own voice on a recording

But it's worthwhile
Do I slouch like that? Move my arm? Grip or abrazo? Bounce? What are my feet doing? Where am I looking? And, indeed, why did I eat so much?

 

[Tangogal]

What’s the point in watching potential partners if you’re looking at all the wrong things?

Height: rarely is a partner totally out of range. Nobody’s dancing with a 10 year old at a milonga. Learn to adjust.

Weight: again this is arbitrary. You don’t have to dance with your right arm all the way across your partners back. Maybe consider a V embrace if bellies or breasts are in the way. (Also works for tall followers)

Sexy/smart dress: this is such a varied and culturally influenced criterion that it makes no sense. Many women prefer trousers for tango and are more concerned with body movements.

Close embrace/milonguero style: a style preference is also pretty arbitrary. Most good followers will dance nicely in a variety of styles. Just because someone dances open/nuevo/escenario with one leader doesn’t mean they won’t enjoy close embrace.

Shoes: ok this one I actually think is worth looking into!

 

[ardix]

@opendoor Since you disclosed that you are located in Hamburg ....is there a FB-group where one could find tango events in Hamburg? I have decided to limit my tango traveling to what it is within feasible train distance and Hamburg qualifies

 

[Brummbaer]

What’s the point in watching potential partners if you’re looking at all the wrong things?

Height: rarely is a partner totally out of range. Nobody’s dancing with a 10 year old at a milonga. Learn to adjust.

Weight: again this is arbitrary. You don’t have to dance with your right arm all the way across your partners back. Maybe consider a V embrace if bellies or breasts are in the way. (Also works for tall followers)

Sexy/smart dress: this is such a varied and culturally influenced criterion that it makes no sense. Many women prefer trousers for tango and are more concerned with body movements.

Close embrace/milonguero style: a style preference is also pretty arbitrary. Most good followers will dance nicely in a variety of styles. Just because someone dances open/nuevo/escenario with one leader doesn’t mean they won’t enjoy close embrace.

Shoes: ok this one I actually think is worth looking into!

These are frequently things which make someone personally attractive to be with. For AT, hair and height can be an issue. I'd rather not have a follower who looks as if I may need to pass some racing car-like driving test to take out for a tanda. I get my own excitement at home. Shoes? Don't care if you're comfortable in them, not complaining at me about your painful feet, and you can dance in them.

Personal hygiene is always tricky after a long, hot, milonga. But it helps to try to do something.

 

[itwillhappen]

What’s the point in watching potential partners if you’re looking at all the wrong things?

Height: rarely is a partner totally out of range. Nobody’s dancing with a 10 year old at a milonga. Learn to adjust.

Weight: again this is arbitrary. You don’t have to dance with your right arm all the way across your partners back. Maybe consider a V embrace if bellies or breasts are in the way. (Also works for tall followers)

I think in real life everyone has had a lot of experience with watching potential partners - and applies this also to tango. With a certain amount of perceived success, otherwise you wouldn't do it.

If you are at an event where everyone is dancing with everyone anyway, it might make sense to learn to adjust. And even then you will not enjoy dancing with everyone equally.
When you're at an event where everyone is choosing their dance partners, you can likely also choose what you want to learn and how you want to dance.

 

[JournalInTime]

For AT, hair and height can be an issue.

Shoes? Don't care if you're comfortable in them, not complaining at me about your painful feet, and you can dance in them.

Personal hygiene is always tricky after a long, hot, milonga.

These qualify as part of "the right things to look at." Speaking as someone who dances in a tightly closed embrace, usually in moderately crowded places where the average floorcraft is mediocre:

• Hair? If their hair gets in your face, or yours in theirs, that's an issue, depending on relative height. Long hair can also get trapped under a hand, and "slide your hand under the hair" isn't universally accepted . . . plenty of people find that far too familiar.

• Height? In a partnership where each person takes 50% responsibility for floorcraft, that it isn't important. However, most followers I invite want me to take 100% responsibility, and they shut their eyes. So, I need a maximal field of vision, and a taller follower becomes a problem. A shorter one is never an issue.

• Shoes? Some shoes "lie" to the wearer about their true footprint. This is mainly an issue with chunky or flared heels (mostly on women's shoes) or welts (mostly on men's shoes). Those are dangerous to the other person when they lead to getting stepped on, especially since they tend to be hard.

• Hygiene? This always matters, but it matters more when someone is pressed against you, because you're going to come away with their sweat, scent, and personal-care products stuck to you, which can make your hygiene look iffy. You can bring only so many spare articles of clothing to a milonga.

All that matters much less when dancing very open in very generous spaces. The other person's hair, feet, and sweat won't be as near you, and there will be enough distance to see around even a tall follower. In situations like that, I'm less likely to look for the above stuff.

But I rarely dance in situations like that. Two Fridays ago, I was dancing at a place where at the busiest, we each had maybe 60cm×60cm, advanced a half-circuit per tanda (not per tango – per tanda), and people who bumped were getting warnings. So, I danced with zero separation at all times, and thus confined my partners to women shorter than me, hair up, in proper dance shoes, and visibly clean.

My example is an extreme for here, but it's closer to the average than "lots of space and people dancing open." The latter really only happens at outdoor events in summer.

 

[opendoor]

.. a FB-group where one could find tango events in Hamburg?..

On FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/tangoargentinohamburg and
on the web https://tangokalender-hamburg.de

I am Andreas K e mp er, you can find me on FB if you need further info.

 

[JournalInTime]

Personally, I have always found it important to master several styles.

Or to merge them.

I started out with what people around here call "salon style" – the approach you see often in El Mundial videos – with a closed embrace that opened slightly when convenient, relatively light weight-sharing, and sacadas everywhere. At that time, I got dragooned into accompanying choreography classes where the style was escenario, no doubt about it, and I had to learn lifts, soltadas, and all that jazz. My private lessons were with four teachers: One was strict about "all milonguero, all the time," and permitted no opening of the embrace and as deep apilado as my knees could handle; another was a nuevo dancer who wanted "elastic arms" and constant embrace changes for acrobatics; the third was a ballet dancer obsessed with pivots; and the last, who became my coach, was competent in something like 13 styles of dance, and taught me style fusion and breaking down movements into components (pauses, weight shifts, displacements, pivots, etc.) so I could escape patterns and sequences, and just invent.

It was confusing and often irritating. Still, I'm glad I did it. Today I can dance any of those ways. Mostly, I dance a fusion: milonguero style that opens to let in escenario and nuevo moves when space permits on the floor, but with salon-informed adornos and turning technique. Also, you can see the influence of non-tango dance. I'm sure people who watch me think it's a hot mess.

 

[JournalInTime]

Yes, it's worse than first hearing your own voice on a recording

But it's worthwhile

Agreed on both. Whenever I see myself dance on video, I notice only my errors. Fortunately, that inspires me to correct them. I just need to pace out the videos sufficiently that I don't give myself PTSD (Post-Tango Shock Disorder).

 

[JournalInTime]

What’s the point in watching potential partners if you’re looking at all the wrong things?

Height

It can matter in situations like the one I mentioned earlier: You're dancing in a 60×60cm square and won't be moving from there. Your partner is glued to you at all times, and shuts her eyes. If you bump somebody, you get a yellow card. Then it's crucial to be tall enough to see over and around your follower, because even a cortado, floreal, or turn to change your arc of vision is restricted.

Weight: again this is arbitrary.

Agreed. When someone says they find another person too heavy, I hear an aesthetic preference, not a technical one.

Sexy/smart dress: this is such a varied and culturally influenced criterion that it makes no sense. Many women prefer trousers for tango and are more concerned with body movements.

Agreed, with one caveat: Long, flowy skirts/dresses catch heels, so I tend to avoid partners wearing them in crowded circumstances.

Close embrace/milonguero style: a style preference is also pretty arbitrary. Most good followers will dance nicely in a variety of styles. Just because someone dances open/nuevo/escenario with one leader doesn’t mean they won’t enjoy close embrace.

Agreed, but awareness is important. We have a few older Argentine women here who really, truly won't support anything but milonguero style. They can dance in other ways, but they refuse to do so where it'll be seen. It's social and cultural, not a question of skill.

Shoes: ok this one I actually think is worth looking into!

Agreed.