Foxtrot Natural Twist Turn Problem

[caw]

I'm using Dan Calloway's Gold Foxtrot Practice Routine, and I have a question about an alteration he seems to have made to the twist turn. The part of the routine I'm confused about is this:

Three Step DW - SQQ
1-4 Natural Twist Turn - SQ&Q
Reverse Wave - SQQ SQQ

I am confused, because 1-4 of the Natural Twist Turn should leave me (as the lead) on my left foot, but the Reverse Wave requires that I start with my weight on my right foot, to take the step with my left. Can anyone help me understand this? To my knowledge, the 1-4 of Natural Twist Turn (lead's side) goes like this:

1) Step Forward R Foot, leading natural heel turn - S
2) Step sideways, continuing momentum L foot - Q
3) Cross R Ball behind - &
4) Untwist, leaving weight on L foot - Q

 

[dlliba10]

I thought the 4-5 of a Twist Turn was a heel pull, where your weight is transferred to the right foot as you untwist. Normal exit for a Twist Turn would be a Hover Feather taking up 6-7-8 (SQQ), but without the 5 and the Hover Feather, it's just one less S to worry about and your weight is properly ready for a Reverse Wave.

 

[Mengu]

Don't see this exact amalgamation in the book, but yeah, feels like something is missing there, like an &, or a S. Dancing as the man, at the end of the untwist you transfer weight to your right foot and kill the sway, and you'd be ready to go into reverse wave. However, the follow would need to dance SQ&Q& (or SQ&QS) to be where she needs to be. I don't really see a reason not to just dance the regular natural twist turn with hover feather ending, since reverse wave from there is perfectly fine, and alignments should work out. You'd have to ask Dan if it's just a mistake in the write up. Of course there are other deviations from syllabus, so it could be intentional.

 

[vit]

One explanation could be to underturn the twist by say 1/4 and proceed with RF back into wave, but I'm just guessing. From my remembering, I never used the twist turn in my foxtrot routines

 

[dlliba10]

You'd have to ask Dan if it's just a mistake in the write up. Of course there are other deviations from syllabus, so it could be intentional.

Sounds like his normal method of unusual choreography -- strange combinations (that work) get noticed more often by judges. Certainly gets rid of the SS that makes the Twist Turn feel awkward for me. Totally right about the follower, though -- she'd need an extra step in there to be on the correct footing for the Reverse Wave.

 

[vit]

Found a word document describing this routine. There is an open impetus after the wave, so first SQQ of wave is indeed the reverse turn part (like defined in the book) and not the back three step part like I thought. So there is obviously one step missing in the description
That said - after watching some of his youtube clips - there are much better examples of the foxtrot out there ....

 

[Mengu]

Certainly gets rid of the SS that makes the Twist Turn feel awkward for me.

Not sure which SS, timing is SQ&QSQQS. But the rise at the end of the twist turn while leaving enough juice in the knees for the hover feather does take some getting used to, if that's what you're talking about.

 

[dlliba10]

Not sure which SS, timing is SQ&QSQQS. But the rise at the end of the twist turn while leaving enough juice in the knees for the hover feather does take some getting used to, if that's what you're talking about.

*facepalm* You're so right. For some reason my brain keeps reversing the Hover Feather to be SQQ instead of QQS. Apologies for the mistake.

 

[caw]

Found a word document describing this routine. There is an open impetus after the wave, so first SQQ of wave is indeed the reverse turn part (like defined in the book) and not the back three step part like I thought. So there is obviously one step missing in the description
That said - after watching some of his youtube clips - there are much better examples of the foxtrot out there ....

I agree with you that he isn't the best dancer out there, but I am learning this routine because of two things. Firstly, I believe he has an extensive conscious knowledge of ballroom dance, while many great dancers have an unconscious knowledge, and are therefore unable to vocalise what they're doing and teach concretely. Secondly, this routine is designed to be awkward and difficult for the purposes of practice. A competition routine would be more elegant.

 

[vit]

I agree with that completely

 

[madmaximus]

I'm using Dan Calloway's Gold Foxtrot Practice Routine, and I have a question about an alteration he seems to have made to the twist turn. The part of the routine I'm confused about is this:

Three Step DW - SQQ
1-4 Natural Twist Turn - SQ&Q
Reverse Wave - SQQ SQQ

I am confused, because 1-4 of the Natural Twist Turn should leave me (as the lead) on my left foot, but the Reverse Wave requires that I start with my weight on my right foot, to take the step with my left. Can anyone help me understand this? To my knowledge, the 1-4 of Natural Twist Turn (lead's side) goes like this:

1) Step Forward R Foot, leading natural heel turn - S
2) Step sideways, continuing momentum L foot - Q
3) Cross R Ball behind - &
4) Untwist, leaving weight on L foot - Q

The mystery is easily explained... DO NOT RISE on 5 (keep the Twist low or flat).

The standard timing for the NTT is SQ&QS, while the 1st 3 of the Reverse wave is SQQ.

The last step of the NTT can become the first of the RW, or you may bleed the timing off for expression.



Tip: Use the last Slow of the NTT to exaggerate the rotation and slingshot the top to rotate to the left as you take the first of the RW.






m

 

[fascination]

at last, something has been said that may have made me start to miss my lessons

 

[madmaximus]

On closer inspection... a couple of mistaken assumptions on the OP:

...

Natural Twist Turn should leave me (as the lead) on my left foot...

Reverse Wave requires that I start with my weight on my right foot....

The gent's weight at end of step 4 of a Standard Natural Twist Turn should rest on the RIGHT foot after the twist (and typically, step 5 is taken as a toe because of the rise, which is omitted (the rise) because of the next figure).

The Standard Reverse Wave is started with the (gent's) LEFT foot.



m

 

[caw]

On closer inspection... a couple of mistaken assumptions on the OP:

The gent's weight at end of step 4 of a Standard Natural Twist Turn should rest on the RIGHT foot after the twist (and typically, step 5 is taken as a toe because of the rise, which is omitted (the rise) because of the next figure).

The Standard Reverse Wave is started with the (gent's) LEFT foot.
m

Let me clarify this with you. I was under the impression that step 4 of the Natural Twist turn ended having twisted with the weight on my left foot, and that step 5 was a side step onto my right foot (Slow). Are you saying that on step 4, my weight is already there? What exactly happens on step 5?

Also, I said on the wave my weight started on my Right foot, so then yes, the step would be taken with my Left as you said.

 

[madmaximus]

Let me clarify this with you. I was under the impression that step 4 of the Natural Twist turn ended having twisted with the weight on my left foot, and that step 5 was a side step onto my right foot (Slow). Are you saying that on step 4, my weight is already there? What exactly happens on step 5?

Also, I said on the wave my weight started on my Right foot, so then yes, the step would be taken with my Left as you said.

There are 5 steps in the Natural Twist Turn per the ISTD ...

• the fourth step ENDING on the RF almost foot flat (exact weight position over the foot is somewhat ambiguous because of the Twist)--so yes you ARE already there at the end of 4
• the twist is performed on the toe of the RF and heel of the LF simultaneously, ending with your weight mostly, if not all on the RF
• the fifth step (or perhaps more accurately in this case, the fifth count) is used to rise on (and ended with weight upon) the RF with pressure on the Inside Edge of the LF toe--the LF toe may extend somewhat from the RF depending on the next figure

In your amalgamation, the fifth step of the NTT is substituted as the first of the RW which is also typically a heel lead.

Ignore my comment about the Reverse Wave, I misread your statement and was stated in error--my apologies.




m