Gentlemen, what do you think of this routine?

[Warren J. Dew]

In practice this week, my 12 year old daughter was having trouble remembering some of her routines, not having done them for 5 months. At one point we agreed that I would learn her tango routine, so I could help her remember next practice. This is the routine:

2 walks
open reverse turn lady outside, closed finish
back rocks with illegal in syllabus shaping on the final rock, closed finish
link to natural twist turn, closed finish
repeat

visual reference:

I'm not sure how I feel about this routine. In a large square room with the twist turns at the corners, it would need a lot of curve - arguably to the point of overturn - going into and through the reverse turn. If a twist turn ends up in the middle of a long side, as might happen on a good sized competition floor, it gets awkward. If you end up at a corner without the twist turn being up, as might happen on a practice floor smaller than a good sized competition floor, it gets really awkward. But, I might be missing something.

What do you think?

 

[Mengu]

I think most syllabus tango routines fit almost any room size with a bit of planning your stride and amounts of turn.

In a large square room with the twist turns at the corners, it would need a lot of curve - arguably to the point of overturn - going into and through the reverse turn.

Not sure what the problem is here, twist turn at corner is an ideal scenario since you can underturn it to fit your next needed alignment.

If a twist turn ends up in the middle of a long side, as might happen on a good sized competition floor, it gets awkward.

I assume you're talking about the two walks ending up too straight as being awkward. I would aim the progressive link more DW than LoD, and turn the twist turn the full amount, this should leave room to curve the two walks. Optionally, if you end up DC before your two walks, you can still curve them a bit and start the reverse turn more toward center and underturn it.

If you end up at a corner without the twist turn being up, as might happen on a practice floor smaller than a good sized competition floor, it gets really awkward.

I don't think there are any steps in this routine that can't handle a corner other than reverse turn. Closed finish can have a variable amount of turn. Back rock can rotate a fair amount. Only potential problem is if you have to go into the two walks to reverse turn and are staring at a corner. I'm not sure how this would happen since your preceding figure is twist turn to closed promenade. But in the event it does happen, one option would be to instead repeat the back rock. That will give you enough rotation and get you to the new LoD. Another option is to add progressive side step to the repertoire. You can dance it into a reverse turn, or a back rock as needed. I find it's a great floor craft step. It's also a great step to practice beautiful footwork.

 

[Cal]

I was going to suggest the same things Mengu already has commented on with regard to how deep/shallow the dancers make the curve in the Walks, and the degree of turn/rotation incorporated into the other figures. But if the dancers find that they are chronically ending the amalgamation in the middle of a long side, maybe consider starting a long side with 2 Walks, Progressive Link, Closed Promenade to get them further down the floor before they start the rest of the amalgamation.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Not sure what the problem is here, twist turn at corner is an ideal scenario since you can underturn it to fit your next needed alignment.

I agree that the twist turns at the corner work. The issue is coming out of the twist turn and closed prom, I'm facing diagonal to wall, and I'll need a lot of curve on the walks or overturn on the open left turn to make that travel down the new line of dance.

I suppose with sufficient underturn on the twist turn, we could come out of the twist turn backtracking against line of dance in the closed promenade, and start the new line of dance DC. Is that what you're suggesting? It seems to me that would put us pretty far away from the new wall, but with small strides, it might work.

I would aim the progressive link more DW than LoD, and turn the twist turn the full amount, this should leave room to curve the two walks. Optionally, if you end up DC before your two walks, you can still curve them a bit and start the reverse turn more toward center and underturn it.

This could work. Or rather, it could definitely work when I'm leading, but for someone doing lady's part and having trouble remembering the routine, adding the adjustments on top of all that might not be so easy. The idea is for me to dance it with her only enough to remind her of the routine, so she can dance her part alone.

I don't think there are any steps in this routine that can't handle a corner other than reverse turn. Closed finish can have a variable amount of turn. Back rock can rotate a fair amount. Only potential problem is if you have to go into the two walks to reverse turn and are staring at a corner. I'm not sure how this would happen since your preceding figure is twist turn to closed promenade.

It would happen by the twist turn having been used up on the previous corner, as the short side in the practice ballroom is quite short.

But in the event it does happen, one option would be to instead repeat the back rock. That will give you enough rotation and get you to the new LoD. Another option is to add progressive side step to the repertoire. You can dance it into a reverse turn, or a back rock as needed. I find it's a great floor craft step. It's also a great step to practice beautiful footwork.

I don't think I'm allowed to change the routine. However, having back up adjustments to suggest once we dance into the wall a few times might be an idea.

Cal, thanks. I agree the walks are the easiest place to adjust the amount of turn. Perhaps the overall amalgamation can be angled so make it easier either to take a corner or to continue straight at the end.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

[OT]
Siiiiiigh.....some of these preteen girls do a better job holding their head in position, and shifting in and out of PP, than I do.
I so admire that!
[BOT]

 

[lucia_l]

PNP,
Never compare yourself to the kids. Never. That way lies madness!

 

[IndyLady]

PNP,
Never compare yourself to the kids. Never. That way lies madness!

Agree with this. I watched the kids' heats at OSB one year from the front row. It was simultaneously the most amazing and depressing sight ever. Knowing that I will never be that good. A paltry consolation was knowing that they probably don't have my spreadsheet skills though.

 

[Mengu]

I agree that the twist turns at the corner work. The issue is coming out of the twist turn and closed prom, I'm facing diagonal to wall, and I'll need a lot of curve on the walks or overturn on the open left turn to make that travel down the new line of dance.

1/8 is not a lot of curve, it's a normal amount of curve. DW is perfect alignment for starting two walks to reverse turn. This is how I typically practice my tango walks, 8 walks to a full circle (one of few practices I can do at home). And for floor craft if I need to pick between curving it more vs less, more is always easier for me.

I'll add the caveat, if the follow is not used to curving their walks, it can be challenging to do it as a couple, so this may be something you need to discuss and practice.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

1/8 is not a lot of curve, it's a normal amount of curve. DW is perfect alignment for starting two walks to reverse turn.

You curve the right foot walks?

I'll add the caveat, if the follow is not used to curving their walks, it can be challenging to do it as a couple, so this may be something you need to discuss and practice.

It's worse than that in this case, since the point is just to remind her enough that she can practice on her own - and while she may not be a teenager yet, she's old enough that her parents have become stupider than she is, so the chances of productive discussion are low.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

[OT]
Siiiiiigh.....some of these preteen girls do a better job holding their head in position, and shifting in and out of PP, than I do.
I so admire that!
[BOT]

And here the thing that bothered me the most was that her head and neck were forward of where they should be, likely due to excessive head turn.

 

[wahoo_foxtrot]

Kalenyuk the gent? Big fan.
I always enjoy watching junior and youth heats. I also notice no one wears a mask and realize it was a clip for a comp in Feb 2020, which feels like a lifetime away

 

[Mengu]

You curve the right foot walks?

You don't? I might do less depending on the partner and space, I can do 1/16th turns, so two walks take me from LoD to DC. I usually have to feel what my partner wants and is comfortable with when I'm dancing with someone new. I'm comfortable with 1/8th with my regular partners. The rotation comes from my standing leg, I don't rotate my top on the RF walk. Once I've taken the LF walk, I already have a right side lead which can remain the same, but I rotate through the standing leg. So yes, I curve both LF and RF walks.

It's worse than that in this case, since the point is just to remind her enough that she can practice on her own - and while she may not be a teenager yet, she's old enough that her parents have become stupider than she is, so the chances of productive discussion are low.

My 7 year old niece tells me how I'm doing it wrong all the time, so I get that.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

And here the thing that bothered me the most was that her head and neck were forward of where they should be, likely due to excessive head turn.

Shows how much of a beginner I still am....

 

[Captain Price]

It is fine. Here are three more amalgamations using associate figures only:

1) Walks LF, RF
Progressive Link
Natural Promenade Turn
Open Promenade (moving DC)
Open Reverse Turn, lady outside

2) Walks LF, RF
Progressive Link
Natural Promenade Turn with Rock Turn ending

3) Walks LF, RF
Progressive Link
Natural Twist Turn
Closed Promenade

1) could be used on the long side, 2) in the vicinity of the corner, 3) on the short side. Rinse and repeat, curving the walks of the following group 1/4 L. If any syllabus figure may be used there are far more interesting combinations.