Good teacher?

[JournalInTime]

If 70% of the people do that and say 3 or 4 different groups of Tango friends show up to then same milonga, to the rest 30% it will appear snobbish. Within each group say one or two person also wants to dance with others, they too think oh those dancers there know each other and busy dancing. Let’s wait till one of the specific dancers is free. That can take time or not happen that night.

I must shrug, because the scene in which I dance is one where either you show up alone and odds are don't dance, or you show up, sit with your friends, dance with your friends, and by virtue of dancing with them, get seen and get invited by others. It's really like that much of the time. I just had a text conversation with a tanguera who was talking about this exact phenomenon.

I hasten to add that I make a point of inviting several people per event whom I've never seen in my life, or whom I've seen around but never danced with. I'm not trying to propagate snobbery. However, if my choice is between "event where I have friends" and "event where I know nobody" or "event where I struggle to get even one tanguera to accept my invitation," I will pick the event with friends. That isn't the same as "event where I have friends and will dance only with them," however.

 

[itwillhappen]

You are assuming a snobby milonga has same cast of evil characters every week The mix changes.

I don't even assume that a snobby person is evil.
And when it comes to multiple people, they are almost always average, and only appear one way or the other in a certain situation.

If you are a good dancer you can survive the snobbiest milongas. Or if you have your keys clique. If you are an average, beginner, etc then it becomes tougher.

What do you call "surviving"? Leaving the milonga satisfied? No.
And certainly it's not guaranteed against a gender imbalance.

You call up a few friends and go with them.

That is the question: why don't you go to a milonga with a few friends?
And finding a plausible answer to that can be quite unpleasant.

Certain milongas are known for higher quality dancing than the others. It is a common thing. It is not like a cabal of people got together and decided we are going to make this milonga snobbish. I don’t rate a place less snobbish because I get my dances. You watch around what’s happening. You hear people talk.

Many will see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. In particular, a person with previous trauma and corresponding projections is condemned to relive the unresolved situation again and again in a metaphorical form, in the hope that it will be resolvable in the meantime. This can be stressful for those around them. If I sense (rightly or wrongly) that a "drama queen" goes to challenge invite me, then I try to avoid the situation without showing any willingness to have "friendly discussions".

 

[JournalInTime]

I don't even assume that a snobby person is evil.

Me, neither. Snobbishness is unpleasant, like anger or gloominess or cynicism, but not innately evil.

I do not consider myself a snob or evil. I can pretty much confirm "not evil" through my actions outside of dance, but Dance Forums isn't Morality Forums. We aren't here to discuss people helped, excellent causes supported, confessions made, laws respected, etc., nor the bad turns we haven't committed ("Hey, folks! I'm not violent, nor do I steal or cheat. Also, I have yet to be cruel to animals!").

On the other hand, there are people who consider me a snob. This is because – aside from a couple of "Stick with it!" tandas per milonga to encourage beginners – I selectively dance with tangueras who've dedicated time and energy comparable to my own to the discussion, study, and practice of tango. I think I have a right to insist that partners do not push, pull, hang, drag, collapse, strong-arm, flop, flail, stomp, etc. in ways that could hurt me.

So, I can accept that somebody who has invested more time and energy than I have might regard me as a bit of a beginner, and perhaps fear the way I dance. Understanding that, I don't see malice in their choice not to dance with me. I don't even consider that real snobbishness, just good sense.

That is the question: why don't you go to a milonga with a few friends?

Indeed. I realize that there's a current of "Tango is a universal language, and you should be able to show up anonymously, out of nowhere, at any milonga, and dance with anyone!" in our pastime. I deem that wishful thinking, a bit like showing up to a pub alone and hoping to be invited to a table of strangers: Yes, it can happen, but most of the time social dance is like social anything, and about seeing friends. The best way to meet new friends is introductions from existing ones . . . I'm not sure I know any tango people who didn't first get into tango either with or through friends.

 

[JournalInTime]

I'm not sure I know any tango people who didn't first get into tango either with or through friends.

When I worked at a studio, I'd have pegged the most common circumstances for starting tango as the following, in descending order:

• Couple seeking a couples activity (1 friend).
• Gaggle of 3-5 people, usually women, almost daring each other to take dance lessons, usually after the free "intro to" class (2-4 friends).
• Lone person invited into tango by one or more established dancers (minimum 1 friend, often quite a few more).
• Two couples seeking a friends activity, much like playing bridge or golf together (3 friends).
• Group – seniors club, university society, members of a different type of dance school, etc. – seeking group activity (lots of friends . . . one time it was an entire salsa class!).
• Lone person with no links to other students or to tango (so rare that I'm having trouble remembering whether it actually happened or I just think it did).

Stay/leave is generally all-or-nothing for those who start with friends, so someone who comes in a couple or group, or at the beck of established dancers, and continues to dance, usually continues to go dancing with friends. Doing so for any length of time means meeting other friends, snowballing into having a group even if they began with just one other person.

I don't doubt that occasionally, some loner just up and decides to get into tango without anyone in their life to support or spark that move, but it strikes me as a rare exception that proves the rule.

 

[pianistamediano]

Me, neither. Snobbishness is unpleasant, like anger or gloominess or cynicism, but not innately evil.

I do not consider myself a snob or evil. I can pretty much confirm "not evil" through my actions outside of dance, but Dance Forums isn't Morality Forums. We aren't here to discuss people helped, excellent causes supported, confessions made, laws respected, etc., nor the bad turns we haven't committed ("Hey, folks! I'm not violent, nor do I steal or cheat. Also, I have yet to be cruel to animals!").

On the other hand, there are people who consider me a snob. This is because – aside from a couple of "Stick with it!" tandas per milonga to encourage beginners – I selectively dance with tangueras who've dedicated time and energy comparable to my own to the discussion, study, and practice of tango. I think I have a right to insist that partners do not push, pull, hang, drag, collapse, strong-arm, flop, flail, stomp, etc. in ways that could hurt me.

So, I can accept that somebody who has invested more time and energy than I have might regard me as a bit of a beginner, and perhaps fear the way I dance. Understanding that, I don't see malice in their choice not to dance with me. I don't even consider that real snobbishness, just good sense.

We can choose to be the better person by not assuming that she always ignores me/rejects my cabeceo = she's a snob or that she's so picky about leaders = she's a snob, and vice versa for leaders. It's everyone's right to do so, though they will suffer any consequences their decision brings, whether it be not getting enough satisfactory dances at a milonga or just developing a reputation as a snob (whether they actually are or not) or as a social climber (I know a few here who only dance with "the elite", and will hunt down visiting pros without mercy).

Although that does prompt the question: what are the typical characteristics and behaviour that a social dancing snob might have?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Because it makes them feel elite and part of an exclusive club?

I think mostly because they've all known one another for years. It's a bit like a private party.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

You mean El D. (Whatever it is short form for) = Solas?

I think author referred to it in her medium article as solas.

Solas is the bar where the milonga is hosted.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

We can choose to be the better person by not assuming that she always ignores me/rejects my cabeceo = she's a snob or that she's so picky about leaders = she's a snob, and vice versa for leaders. It's everyone's right to do so, though they will suffer any consequences their decision brings, whether it be not getting enough satisfactory dances at a milonga or just developing a reputation as a snob (whether they actually are or not) or as a social climber (I know a few here who only dance with "the elite", and will hunt down visiting pros without mercy).

Although that does prompt the question: what are the typical characteristics and behaviour that a social dancing snob might have?

Well, you know, a lot of younger dancers simply dance with their peers. They are not necessarily snobbish or cliquish, they simply want to dance with their friends and peers. Although maybe that's a definition of cliquishness also. That's not my approach. For one I'm not young. For another, I like intergenerational dancing and I like mixing my dance partners, and try to dance with new people when I can. I would find it tiresome to always dance multiple tandas with the same people at the same milonga. And most followers I have danced with don't seem to find it interesting either.

 

[pianistamediano]

The best way to meet new friends is introductions from existing ones . . . I'm not sure I know any tango people who didn't first get into tango either with or through friends.

I don't doubt that occasionally, some loner just up and decides to get into tango without anyone in their life to support or spark that move, but it strikes me as a rare exception that proves the rule.

Congratulations! You know me.

I decided that while I was perfectly happy to spend all my time inside my room for all four years of university, I needed to force myself to go out and actually do something. So I gravitated towards dancing because any other clubs involving music had an oversaturation of pianists and/or wanted the best amateur musicians only. Tried salsa (music sucked), swing (did it for a semester, would've rather been playing in a big band than dancing), ballroom (ugh) and finally chanced upon tango, and immediately fell in love with the music.

(It would have definitely been a different situation if I had tried to start tango in London — there are good people here, but even ignoring the precipitous heights a beginner leader has to surmount in any moderately sized or larger scene, the sheer unfriendliness, snobbery and inclination towards worshipping the local elite would have made me quit long ago.)

Every single friend I had or have in tango, I did not know before I started.

 

[Cabbit]

I don't doubt that occasionally, some loner just up and decides to get into tango without anyone in their life to support or spark that move, but it strikes me as a rare exception that proves the rule.

Hello.

 

[Bailango]

I must shrug, because the scene in which I dance is one where either you show up alone and odds are don't dance, or you show up, sit with your friends, dance with your friends, and by virtue of dancing with them, get seen and get invited by others. It's really like that much of the time. I just had a text conversation with a tanguera who was talking about this exact phenomenon.

I am taking a break from tango. Exceptions are banand only going to milongas when there is good live music. Which means I am averaging 2 milongas a month.

Luckily I always show up alone. It is too much work herding people to come to a specific milongas. People I know have college going kids or a few of good follower friends are single parents. Which means they can’t be regulars and other family commitments come in the way.

Most of the current lot of regulars, I only know them at milonga without any social connection outside it.

I very strongly prefer that I go by myself. When visiting out of town, that is the only option.

 

[David_In_CA]

I agree with most of your points, but not the above. This actually happens, at least here. I know about it because I know a lot of teachers. There are definitely technically "public" milongas – not encuentros, but events that just anybody could walk into, pay, and sit at (because they won't dance) – that make a point of not advertising other than by word of mouth among their preferred clientele. The photos afterward show nobody but teachers and visiting maestros on the floor, being watched by a sparse crowd of bored-looking "normals."

How do they pay for that event?

 

[itwillhappen]

I don't doubt that occasionally, some loner just up and decides to get into tango without anyone in their life to support or spark that move, but it strikes me as a rare exception that proves the rule.

The weather got worse, I decided to take up dancing as an indoor activity, researched it online, looked for a dance partner on a dance partner portal and started a tango course. There's not much magic behind it.

 

[itwillhappen]

I very strongly prefer that I go by myself. When visiting out of town, that is the only option.

I prefer it that way too, apart from carpooling and weekend events.

Only in the case that someone is not satisfied with the social behavior at a milonga, then perhaps a look at one's own social life is helpful. So is the tango supposed to compensate for something? Why don't my friends want to dance tango? Why can't I find dance partners at tango? Why can't I find anyone to talk to in a bar? And if it's different with other types of dance - why don't I go there?

 

[Cabbit]

Why don't my friends want to dance tango? Why can't I find dance partners at tango?

Honestly, im impressed by people who have friends they can talk into such a commitment.

They would have to be at least vaguely interested in the general idea of dance +

Have disposable income
Have free time
Be able bodied enough for the activity
Willing to learn something new
Maybe some other requirements too, i dont know