Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
colgada
Good teacher?
- Thread starter neveragain
- Start date
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I'd say that's a telltale sign. For a beginning lesson, it should be all about walk, posture, embrace, but most of it would be done in a practice hold because dancing tango in a true abrazo can be very difficult at first. Tango isn't about steps, it's about moving together in an embrace. The hook thing, which is a gancho, would never be taught at this stage and some teachers don't bother teaching it at all.
I'd suggest using private lessons to supplement group lessons.
You said you'd done group lessons before? Depends for how long and what you covered. Especially technique (like walking), and basic vocabulary. You also need different partners. Yes, some of them will be bad! Private lessons you just get to follow a [allegedly] good leader.
Private lessons, if there's some syllabus and end objective, can be useful, but I'd still go with a group and then use private lessons to explain, or correct, problems. Once you have some basics, then you can use them to expand your repertoire.
I still reckon that you also need a good female teacher for some of the necessary attributes rather than a male interpretation.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Ooof, that's one mess of a lesson. Good teachers do simple things first. Then they do them again. And again. They try to teach some technique as well (balance, posture), maybe some simple exercises for tango-like movements and coordination. But in the beginning, it's walking and maybe the salida, but mostly walking. All that other is stuff that you described is for Intermediate-Advaned. I don't think it should be introduced until you've got a couple of years of AT under your belt. Well, maybe the sandwich, that's not difficult to learn, although I don't personally find it essential. Observe the old milongueros on YouTube.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
Being devil’s advocate here, although I agree with most comments above, for a follower, there is some value in being thrown into something way above your head for several reasons. If things are too basic they can be boring and customer doesn’t come back. Wowing a beginner with ‘look all these fun things you’ll do one day’. I believe it’s useful to experience what CAN be done before learning HOW to do things. There will be a lot of getting back to basics and fine tuning stuff in the coming decades of your learning journey.
He might be testing your abilities, to gauge where to start working on what.
Of course, he runs the risk of throwing too much at you, also risking to lose you as a customer because a bunch of strangers on the Internet tells you it’s not THE way to learn.
He might be testing your abilities, to gauge where to start working on what.
Of course, he runs the risk of throwing too much at you, also risking to lose you as a customer because a bunch of strangers on the Internet tells you it’s not THE way to learn.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
I've done 1 group class for an hour. Never came back. Just to mention again, this was from a teacher who only teaches AT and runs a regular milonga. There were not enough men or leads, lesson was more than walking but much simpler than the recent teacher and TBH I thought it was boring because it wasn't hard for me to follow unlike trying to get the cue when to use gancho or colgante for the very first time. I understand that it takes years to be good at dancing this is also true with my ballroom journey.
So maybe new teacher was just trying to give me a glimpse of the fancy steps so I know what's a head of me.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
This!
In dancing, the techniques just takes time (even with a lot of practice). For me, sometimes it has to be the right time and right teacher to get it.
Wow!
Sometimes the slog through the group lessons and basic technique is worthwhile. Great, you've got some dance experience, so maybe not beginners - unless you haven't got the basics...
It's a social dance. It's not a ballroom Pro-Am contest. It's not a show dance at the milonga. You need practice between lessons. Are there any practicas where you are? They are becoming few and far between, but most tango groups have something - even 30mins to 1hr after a group lesson. It can degenerate to an informal milonga. Anyone who might be interested in practicing with you? Do you have space somewhere? The kitchen can be a good space!
When you go to a milonga you're likely (probabilities vary!) to be invited to dance. Not every leader is a high standard! You will get both some poor and great leaders, but socially you need to encourage beginners who are not so good (it pays off later!). You will be a 'fresh' partner at the milonga, but that wears off
OK, so you learn to follow some 'fancy' moves with a good leader. What if other leaders don't do them? Colgadas (that 'hanging') are regarded as pretty advanced (and it became a little unfashionable). Sometimes a walk, with variations, makes a great dance.
Are you going to enter the world of 'active following' (see other thread), or put in lots of adornos (is your male teacher going to teach those?)
I'd suggest it will be faster and more effective to supplement group lessons with privates in isolation.
Yes, there is some value in finding out what you don't know. But then it comes to solving that issue. Maybe he was just working out what you need, but (always) proceed with caution.
Be Present
Well-Known Member
I have really good ballroom dancers in my classes. They require the basics as much as anyone else. There are different ways to learn, but there are no shortcuts, except for drilling technique alone to more rapidly develop all the foundations. Practicas are invaluable. Leaders come in all varieties. “Active following” and adornos shouldn’t be on the radar yet. They are styling a dance. First you need the solid ability to just do figures technically correctly with a decent leader. The other things will come. But… enjoy the journey. It can be amazing to just walk and do minimal figures when you are in sync with a leader. Walks never get boring for me. I could do a whole tanda of them with walk variations and be content. Once you start to see the nuances to the walk, it won’t be boring. Best of luck to you! It’s wonderful to see people fall in love with tango. I hope the advice hasn’t been overwhelming.
neveragain
Well-Known Member
Oh just to clarify, I wasn't bored just doing basics or simple steps. It was probably the set up of the class, not enough leads to dance along with during the instruction and wasn't comfortable with excessive sweating of the teacher. I do social ballroom too and it's true unless I dance with a teacher, most leads are less experience than I am. I regularly go to basic ballroom group classes just to practice my basics. I think it's bc I also believe in iterative approach - basic, new step, back to basic, another new step and repeat...
Long time ago, I danced with a lead in bachata. The guy just grew up dancing it not from like formal lessons. The steps were very basics but the dance connection was great. I want to experience that someday on AT. And you're right I need to do my part to attend milongas and group classes if I really want to grow in AT.
opendoor
Forum Master
Hi neveragain, group classes and privates have different purposes. The privates are important for feedback on your posture, alignment of the body parts, dissociation, too much or too little body control or tension, responsiveness and so on. Group classes are essential for social contacts, for the rumors in the scene, hear-say and gossip, tacher rating and finding the next dance partner. Neither replaces the other!
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Point is that not everyone dances that way in real milongas. You see the fancy steps a lot on stage but not on the pista.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
That's the best part of AT . . . but it's not easy to get to that stage. It can actually be more complicated than the fancy steps.
Reuven Thetanguero
Well-Known Member
An experienced Tanguero who dances in close embrace will have you experience that kind of connection. It doesn't have to take a long time, just enough time until you find one.
This appeared in my YT feed (Sorry, it's not allowing me to embed a video short - see the link)
There's a whole bunch of similar which seem to have been split out of a longer video.
Just a thought on learning as a follower and where the female perspective usually(!) comes in. (I can't say a male 'coach' couldn't achieve similar, but I wonder about a 'teacher'. It also gives a perspective on male 'followers' - a discussion elsewhere). AT is more than just 'steps'.
There's a whole bunch of similar which seem to have been split out of a longer video.
Just a thought on learning as a follower and where the female perspective usually(!) comes in. (I can't say a male 'coach' couldn't achieve similar, but I wonder about a 'teacher'. It also gives a perspective on male 'followers' - a discussion elsewhere). AT is more than just 'steps'.