grounded vs heavy. ungrounded vs light

[JohnEm]

See how tension and freedom work together minimalistically, structurally; balanced, and connected to hold up something seemingly invisible and weightless, but is actually quite a bit of mass. Doing more with less, beautifully.

Like being grounded in, and dancing good AT.

Love your table!

 

[Dave Bailey]

Bugger all if any of it makes sense to me.

I'm getting to that point also

All I know is that dancing with him is like dancing with a brick wall--in a good way--in that he feels so incredibly solid and secure and immovable, unless he wants to move.

That's pretty much how I see it also. I've noticed that I've become much more grounded as I progress - it's much more difficult for a follower to pull me off balance, basically. Which is good for us.

I've no idea how it happens, I think it's simply something that comes with experience.

"Grounded" is jargon. "Stable" is much better.

 

[ant]

I've no idea how it happens, I think it's simply something that comes with experience.

"Grounded" is jargon. "Stable" is much better.

DB I was wondering if your lesson with Unni at The Mango helped with this technique. I found that she is the best teacher for this sort of thing.

What I have taken grounded to mean from her is that although your weight is th the front of your foot you are still able to put weight through your heel(s) into the floor.

Therefore I think "grounded" is a good description.

 

[bordertangoman]

1. Please do not confuse a definition of being grounded w/ how to do it.

It is a dynamic state ie it requires balance and the use of the knee joint being flexed
(And the table above was balanced but not grounded!)
It means you can transfer any movement of yourself or your partner through your centre into the floor using the strength of your feet ie the muscles that operate your feet

2. Being grounded simply means being solidly balanced, both vertically and horizontally. Grounded is a horrible term; I never use it.

 

[Joe]

"Grounded" is jargon. "Stable" is much better.

Being that I suspect I know who Peaches is referring to, I think "stable" works. I was going to say "balanced," but there are many degrees of "balanced," some of which overlap with "stable."

 

[Peaches]

Awww honey... you're just trying to get me excited...

*snort*

OMG. You almost made me ruin my work computer by spewing coffee. And if I die from choking on account of trying to stifle my laugh here in my khuube, I'm blaming you.

LOL.

 

[bafonso]

I've described it to people to dancing with a lower center of gravity than you would probably do on a day to day basis. You grab yourself to the dancer's best partner, the floor.

I've been told the example of construction workers walking in steel beams 50 floors above the ground. That makes sense to me.

 

[newbie]

Its a scam.

If you want to be "grounded" get wide leg trousers hemmed to cover your shoes.

If you want to be "light" get tapered leg trousers hemmed to break on top of your shoes.

;-)

I second this. One teacher of mine once congratulated me about my sudden groundedness. All I had done was buying a pair of trousers with large legs which were hiding my shoes. On the other hand I've seen people dancing tango on the beach, wearing bermudas, and nobody looked grounded.

 

[bordertangoman]

I second this. One teacher of mine once congratulated me about my sudden groundedness. All I had done was buying a pair of trousers with large legs which were hiding my shoes. On the other hand I've seen people dancing tango on the beach, wearing bermudas, and nobody looked grounded.

ITS not the bermudas its the flip-flops! but tango never looks good in shorts..

 

[Steve Pastor]

It is a dynamic state ie it requires balance and the use of the knee joint being flexed
(And the table above was balanced but not grounded!)
It means you can transfer any movement of yourself or your partner through your centre into the floor using the strength of your feet ie the muscles that operate your feet

So, you see, AT has much in common with other dances.

PRESS -
(1) Refers to the pressure exerted into the floor, pressing the balls of the feet DOWN - to move the body UP or propel the body "out." (2) The "press" is done by the "sending" foot. (3) There is also a "Press" by the non-weighted Foot that is used to maintain balance by pressing the floor.

SENDING FOOT - RECEIVING FOOT
(A) - SENDING FOOT: (1) (1) Thefoot that presses into the floor to project the body (the CPB) in the direction that the dancer wants to go. Use of the 3-Toe Base is crucial in developing a good Sending Foot.
(B) - RECEIVING FOOT: (1) The foot that receives the weight from the "sending foot". (2) How the receiving foot "collects" the body weight depends upon the dance being done, the direction of the move, and the rhythm being danced. (3) When correctly mastered,control of the sending foot results in the transfer of weight (the CPB) happening on the precise beat of the music.
Teaching Note:
The connection between the sending foot, the CPB and the receiving foot needs to start on Lesson one.




P.S. I have been taught, however, that the "free foot", should be in contact with the floor, but not pressing into it.

 

[JohnEm]

So, you see, AT has much in common with other dances.

PRESS -
(1) Refers to the pressure exerted into the floor, pressing the balls of the feet DOWN - to move the body UP or propel the body "out." (2) The "press" is done by the "sending" foot. (3) There is also a "Press" by the non-weighted Foot that is used to maintain balance by pressing the floor.

SENDING FOOT - RECEIVING FOOT
(A) - SENDING FOOT: (1) (1) Thefoot that presses into the floor to project the body (the CPB) in the direction that the dancer wants to go. Use of the 3-Toe Base is crucial in developing a good Sending Foot.
(B) - RECEIVING FOOT: (1) The foot that receives the weight from the "sending foot". (2) How the receiving foot "collects" the body weight depends upon the dance being done, the direction of the move, and the rhythm being danced. (3) When correctly mastered,control of the sending foot results in the transfer of weight (the CPB) happening on the precise beat of the music.
Teaching Note:
The connection between the sending foot, the CPB and the receiving foot needs to start on Lesson one.

I really, really, really wasn't going to comment seriously on this thread but this is a step, or many steps, too far.

Steve, what sort of tango are you doing? In milonguero/apilado (damn, I have to use some names to specify what it is I'm talking about) you definitely don't press the standing foot into the floor in order to move. The most I seem to do is drive with the front of the foot if a longer step is needed. But this is all too much analysis and the wrong analysis at that in my view.

This seems more like a ballroom description to me where the partners are counter-balancing by leaning back which demands a different technique to move. One of the best things for me about AT is all its differences from other dances.

And if you have to press the free foot into the floor to maintain balance (3) then your balance isn't good enough yet.

P.S. I have been taught, however, that the "free foot", should be in contact with the floor, but not pressing into it.

And I have to challenge this too. A foot is not necessarily free if it's in contact with the floor and it's certainly best to keep it just clear of the floor when the free leg is moving/closing, something I had to learn. Once stationary and collected you can waft the free foot about, tap the floor, whatever, as long as you're still in balance, and ladies do of course.

It's not that the collected foot of the free leg cannot be in contact with the floor, it can be once the concept of the free foot/leg is in your system, but I don't accept the emphasis that it should be which is very confusing.

But this is off-topic - what was it by the way?

 

[Mario7]

Heh, so this made me remember something... last year when Graciela Gonzalez came through, I asked her what the whole grounding thing was about...
So she asked me to take a step, then right after I transferred the weight, she SHOVED me. Causing me to stumble. After I recovered, she told me to take another step. Warily, I did so... this time, she made me stand there and lift one leg after I collected. Then she corrected my posture. Then she pushed my standing foot down on the floor to make sure it was flat, tapped the back of my knee to make sure it wasn't locked. Then, satisfied, she shoved me again. This time I didn't move. Then she made me take another step, and end in the same position. And again, with the shove. I didn't move. "There. You are grounded now."

This kind of rememberance of detail is a GIANT help. Thanks!:banana:

 

[Steve Pastor]

In answer to your question, John, there is more than one style of AT. Yes, when dancing apilado, there is less of a "push" off of the standing foot, and more of a "falling forward".
Most "close embrace" dancers, however, don't dance apilado, even here in "close embrace" Portland.

I have to use some names to specify what it is I'm talking about

Yup, but it's not so bad once you realize that it helps minimize miscommunication.

Apilado IS in many ways a very different way to move.
And, as I've written many times, I love it. If I restricted myself to apilado only, I would dance even less than I do now.
(My apilado has more energy than "milonguero", if you want to engage in the stereotype of an old guy plodding along, which is what most people do. This is based on what I hear in the music. There actually ARE times that I dance with little energy. That only happens when there is little energy in the music.)

As the embrace "opens", the posture becomes less forward, and less and less weight is shared, where does the movement begin? The standing leg/ foot presses down and back to move the body forward.

AT is shrouded in myth, "New Age" concepts, and babblespeak.
I'm beginning wonder why some of top AT people who were trained in ballet, modern, etc, don't do a better job of explaining things. Maybe they realize that the "romance" and mythic aspects sell better to the people that come to AT.

Anyhow, don't want to get too far away from "being grounded".

P.S. Someone else wrote that a teacher pressed his free foot onto the floor to help him be grounded (as I remember it). As I wrote, I don't do that, although it LOOKS like I do because the foot touches the floor. Just another tango illusion.
P.P.S. Looks like I misunderstood the bit about the free leg being pressed down.

 

[JohnEm]

In answer to your question, John, there is more than one style of AT. Yes, when dancing apilado, there is less of a "push" off of the standing foot, and more of a "falling forward".

Way Hay we agree!

Yup, but it's not so bad once you realize that it helps minimize miscommunication.

Well there's not much disagreement about those terms!

Apilado IS in many ways a very different way to move. And, as I've written many times, I love it. If I restricted myself to apilado only, I would dance even less than I do now.
(My apilado has more energy than "milonguero", if you want to engage in the stereotype of an old guy plodding along, which is what most people do. This is based on what I hear in the music. There actually ARE times that I dance with little energy. That only happens when there is little energy in the music.)

Hooray again. I hate the old man plodding along thing.
Oscar Casas is a much better role model and others like his friend Ricardo Vidort (sadly only with us now on video).

AT is shrouded in myth, "New Age" concepts, and babblespeak.
I'm beginning wonder why some of top AT people who were trained in ballet, modern, etc, don't do a better job of explaining things. Maybe they realize that the "romance" and mythic aspects sell better to the people that come to AT.

Now this is a subject we could talk long about, but we'd better not.

Anyhow, don't want to get too far away from "being grounded".

Yes, they can go back to the topic I don't want to talk about!

But you won't let me . . .

P.S. Someone else wrote that a teacher pressed his free foot onto the floor to help him be grounded (as I remember it). As I wrote, I don't do that, although it LOOKS like I do because the foot touches the floor. Just another tango illusion.
P.P.S. Looks like I misunderstood the bit about the free leg being pressed down.

You know, no matter how hard you think you press with a foot onto the floor you cannot increase the pressure on the floor. You cannot conjure up more weight from nowhere, you weigh what you weigh. And if you weight the free foot you unweight the standing foot compromising the balanced axis of standing on one leg.

 

[Mario7]

You know, no matter how hard you think you press with a foot onto the floor you cannot increase the pressure on the floor. You cannot conjure up more weight from nowhere, you weigh what you weigh.

This misses the point imo. There's pressing and there's pressing, they are not the same thing. Just like there's massaging and there's massaging. The times when I have felt my foot enter the floor was also the times when I felt my feet massaging and being massaged by the floor. Not everything is explainable by engineering and physics.:bkick: