opendoor
Forum Master
Pssst, you caught me, but I don't want the others to see it.
Growing Old in Tango
- Thread starter itwillhappen
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Pssst, you caught me, but I don't want the others to see it.pianistamediano
Forum Master
What's happening with English tango?
I'm guessing that the current trend of convergence is partly because there are many ways to do a movement, but much fewer efficient/effective ways, so the latter have survived/been developed and passed down more than the former. Something along the lines of natural selection. Plus with the current focus on social tango — dancing socially with other couples on the pista — I'd be expecting less teaching of movements that are hazardous or disrespectful compared to before. Or maybe just discouraging acrobatic moves like lifts. So it's winnowing the chaff, in a sense.
But then isn't there something of a trend of standardisation too? Since you have too many performers (who may or may not be regular social dancers) that do workshops and "masterclasses" all over the world, and I'd expect them to cohere with Mundial-style dancing to varying degrees. Since you have channels like 030tango which distribute performance videos, people want to dance more like them. So another contributing factor to convergence is globalization and easy access to videos of dancers.
In all honesty, I'm just too uncertain about the definition of styles. So I just say I dance tango de salón, and leave it to the askers to decide what it means.
I can only write about my own experiences, everything else is mere observation,
photographs and video and film are mostly utterly misleading for almost all social dance,
not just Tango. As a personal example I was first taught Tango in a semi-open Vee hold,
man's left hand extended to hold partner's right hand resulting in tensed arms with
both partners looking at their hands. This is dancing in a (photographic) pose, exactly
what Argentine partners tend to do statically when someone wants to take their photograph.
Both faces looking at the camera because close embrace tango is not photographic.
Argentines do not dance like that yet such a stressed position can be taught abroad
because that is what teachers might have seen in such photographs.
As for man-hug, read my post more carefully. I do get tired of seeing performance dancers
and teachers claiming their style as being true to to the roots of Tango. Mostly they don't
and certainly the influences of its origins are being lost - if not already lost. The reference
to the man-hug is one such. Now it's true that Tango's roots are in another earlier fitter
and largely non-sedentary age - today's bodies, stances and postures are not yesterday's.
Ideas of core, stability and balance were not generally thought about then. People danced
as they were - good and bad - and men practised with each other. It was probably they who
discovered the man-hug as a way of dancing which migrated into Tango de Centro.
Only a few women return such a hug equally and virtually none abroad. Teachers teach
what they think or have found can be taught - concentrating on physicality, balance and
timing (another unique fundamental of Tango being lost) doesn't sell lessons nor retain
the interest of students looking for a quick extrovert tango fix.
There are YouTube videos to be found which show a stress-free upper chest connected
dance, it is in fact a natural feeling which you have to find for yourself in your own body.
There’s probably some type of correlation between opendoor dancing at milongas for 2 years before his first lesson and him thinking tango is easier than salsa
opendoor
Forum Master
On the contrary, you actually agree with me with this statement! Folks who don't want to learn properly don't learn it in class or just by doing. But those who want to learn it, only need to heed the advice and feedback of the dancers.
Getting started with tango is easy. All you have to do is move to the music in slow motion and in a tight embrace on the dance floor. The first time you will step on your partner's feet, with the second dance you lean further forward and will begin to project intuitively. You continuously improve. At first I was overwhelmed with good advice. Everyone tried to make me a useful dancer.
Such a soft start is not possible at a salsa party. At least not at the ones in my city. The only thing that counts is show, glitter and speed.
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pianistamediano
Forum Master
Another point in the massive mountain of reasons why tango is objectively superior to salsa.
opendoor
Forum Master
..growing old in tango
In my first posts here on DF, I made fun of dancers who only dance to well-known pieces. Now, 16 years later, I also only dance to known pieces.
Is that a view of how Argentine Tango developed, or your shortcut?
Horrifying thought of going to first milonga with zero dance ability
. But then, that's a depiction of Copes in Our Last Tango They're 'well-known' because they're the ones which eminently inspire, or inspired, dance. The 'hits' of that era.
It's more about knowing, and doing, what's appropriate in the circumstances. e.g. avoiding high boleros or sacadas' in a crowded pista. But, if you've only learned something 'showy', then that's, sadly, your base. Growing Old in Tango should encourage some wisdom based on experience.
opendoor
Forum Master
Only horrifying for those who have learned for one year at a dance studio. And the teacher repeatedly asks to go to a milonga, because that was the real tango. There is no better way to keep your students immature and thus bind them to the studio....Horrifying thought of going to first milonga with zero dance ability
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I've heard and read of a word for people who stick to classes (willingly or not, knowingly or not) and don't go to milongas (as opposed to prácticas) much, if at all — "classeros". Not that I'm judging them. If they're having a good time and are satisfied, who am I to denigrate or belittle their pleasures? To each their own.
On the other extreme [?] end of the spectrum, I know a few people who are extremely against classes of any kind; privates, group classes, workshops, you name it, they abhor it. Given that there's still a prevalence of excessive focus on sequences and steps, and (in my opinion) not enough time spent on the music, I can see some rationale for their opinions. Instead, they recommend that new people should go to practicas and learn by dancing with experienced dancers, and then after some time, going to milongas and watching other dancers before dancing on the pista themselves.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Here are some data points I have encountered:
- I think the biggest factor is men are generally in short supply in dance.
- When I was a beginner I generally didn't have trouble getting dances -- obviously the generous ladies were going from a good to a less-good dancer, and were able to see past my Tango Distopian foibles.
- "I'd rather dance than sit!"
- "I remember that I was a beginner once, too!"
- I believe instructors have danced with me because I was their student (That's good business! I'm shocked more instructors don't dance with newbies and visitors and their students, and mention they are an instructor.)
- When I have visited milongas where no one knew me, some ladies have definitely strongly cabeceoed, or even asked verbally, before I had even put my shoes on. Maybe they are gamblers? Maybe someone who Tangos when traveling tends to be a better bet? Maybe it's just that general man-shortage-in-dance thing? As an exception that proves the rule, at one venue I had to cabeceo about 20 women before one accepted! I was afraid I was going to have to leave with zero dances! After that first dance I had no trouble the rest of the night.
- https://tangoenpunta.com/ is on hold since COVID, but it was (and I hope will be again, I'd like to go), Tango with inclusion. These are surprisingly large festivals. I imagine many of those with challenges are not good dances in a conventional sense; obviously there are especially wonderful people able to look beyond and provide joy.
- I haven't heard anyone say this, but my observation is that the best followers, in my estimation, disproportionately dance with people of all levels (they are also disproportionately teachers).
- Some followers never or almost never say "no." That is part of the success my dear wife (DW) has, she is one of the most popular followers in our little area, and almost never misses a tanda she wants to dance. I think related to this is a fear that saying "no" will lead to never getting asked by that person again.
- A lady I saw multiple times always looked to be in deep bliss when dancing. I asked her why. She said being held was so wonderful, why wouldn't she be happy? BTW she was foreign (I'm in the USA).
- Infrequently ladies have danced with me (even as a beginner) to flirt. I don't think it is serious and is more in the spirit of practicing -- no one has pursued anything after a Tanda. they are invariably divorced. It is obvious DW and I have a serious thing going.
- I imagine some consider it an investment for the future.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
OK, perhaps I misread your post and I would agree with the above statement. But the above abrazo is not a mystery and not all that uncommon, even up here. Point of connection here being about the solar plexus I assume.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
If only it were that easy.