Growing Old in Tango

JournalInTime said:
There are plenty of 30- and 40-somthings who want my time, but my experience is that, um, experience matters more than youthful athleticism.
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Eh. I've spent nearly a decade now on the music and improving the way my dance feels for followers, and in my experience, most of these followers don't appreciate that.

It's rare that I get a dance with a dancer with the requisite precision and sensitivity and actually feels the music (Not like most followers these days who treat tango as merely physical), but they're always weak at the knees (figuratively!) afterwards.

I've been thinking about taking a break from local milongas because I have been getting less and less dances, making me feel unappreciated, and just focusing my time and energy at the marathons/trips overseas, but I can only afford to go to one every few months, so oof.
 
JournalInTime said:
I'm 56 years old, and when my 50-year-old partner isn't available to dance, my main dance "dates" are 69 and 77 years old. There are plenty of 30- and 40-somthings who want my time, but my experience is that, um, experience matters more than youthful athleticism.
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I dance with a few older women and young women. It just depends on who I think is compatible and who wants to dance with me. The older women I enjoy dancing with are not always at the milongas I attend or vice versa. Some milongas skew younger, that's just the way it is. Older women refuse to attend them because they are ignored. It's the same old story.
 
JournalInTime said:
..when my 50-year-old partner isn't available to dance, my main dance "dates" are 69 and 77 years old. There are plenty of 30- and 40-somthings who want my time, but my experience is that, um, experience matters more than youthful athleticism.
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Is it really "experience" what makes the difference? Isn't it more of a type of decisiveness, wisdom and humility?
You don't get there through experience, not through years or miles on the dance floor!
 
opendoor said:
Is it really "experience" what makes the difference? Isn't it more of a type of decisiveness, wisdom and humility?
You don't get there through experience, not through years or miles on the dance floor!
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Wisdom and humility matter a lot. I love the older milongueros in my region. They are all very good. I watch them and they purposefully attempt to ask new followers or followers who aren’t dancing to dance, even though a lot of these followers are well below their level. They also dance with their favorite followers. These milongueros are taking care of the tango community and doing their best to make sure no one has a bad experience. I love this about them. They are so honorable. It’s not just about them.

There’s another group of younger tangueros who only dance with favorite followers from their group. They are amazing dancers but i do not respect them the way that i respect the older milongueros.
 
For some time ago I became aware of that most of my practica partners were retired like me. Some have started to have physical difficulties and cannot dance regularly or at all. Today I try to have more people in 40- and 60- groups than before.

The rare cases I go to milongas the age isn't an issue but the long time friendship is a reason to share a tanda.
 
ardix said:
Apparently, there is a male perspective as well...
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Though Robin is coming from a somewhat different place, as his experience is mostly from a university tango club, so very young people.

He was arguing that we shouldn't be surprised that young people want to dance with partners their own age, and I think that makes more sense in that context – namely that in a typical milonga students would be finding people their grandparents' age, and also at that age you may be more likely to be seeking a romantic partner also.
 
TTanguero said:
Though Robin is coming from a somewhat different place, as his experience is mostly from a university tango club, so very young people.

He was arguing that we shouldn't be surprised that young people want to dance with partners their own age, and I think that makes more sense in that context – namely that in a typical milonga students would be finding people their grandparents' age, and also at that age you may be more likely to be seeking a romantic partner also.
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I really liked listening to both of these interviews.

Robin makes some really good points and he highlights some of the key things I've noticed as a younger female dancer: some older dancers (leaders and followers both) are quite uncomfortable to dance with, they seem to have a harder time changing and growing as dancers, and ageism cuts both ways - I've found some older dancers to be quite condescending to younger dancers.

It all comes back around to respect. If two people are able to demonstrate mutual respect then all will be well, no matter the age difference. If one person thinks they are superior, either because they are younger and supposedly more athletic, or because they are older and supposedly wiser, and they aren't willing to acknowledge that the other person may have something to show them worth listening to, then it falls apart.

I do enjoy dancing with people of all ages, there are many kind, respectful, and considerate older dancers out there, and there are also younger dancers I don't enjoy dancing with (yet), but dancing with someone your own age is different. I don't think it's about romance, I think it's about the balance of power and neither person feeling intimidated. You feel a type of camaraderie with your partner which is harder to find with someone of a different generation.
 
pianistamediano said:
I've been thinking about taking a break from local milongas because I have been getting less and less dances, making me feel unappreciated, and just focusing my time and energy at the marathons/trips overseas, but I can only afford to go to one every few months, so oof.
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I am in the same boat. I have been taking a break from local milongas. I am getting a feeling that people don’t seem to discern between good and bad dancing. Currently I am not traveling either.
 
Brummbaer said:
Sadly a considerationo_O. Altruism or attraction to PYTs? Maybe, 'socially', it becomes a mix of both.
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30% to 40% of my dances are with new followers or followers who aren’t getting dances, even though a lot of these followers are not to my desired level. To me that’s a big “social” part of dancing too. “Social” is not one dimension dynamic for me. It is apparent that to many the milongas doubles as a social club to meet friends. But that also ends up excluding others who are not in that club.

PYT thing is over blown. Yes it exists but doesn’t manifest as much as it gets talked about. I agree with all that she says in the video. There is more to getting dances than age. I think the PYT effect wears off after a few milongas. On consistent basis you are likely to get more dances if you are friendly, positive aura, nicer, and good dancer in that order. Melina Sedo says exactly the same.

Some PYTs get more dances because in addition to being PYT they are friendlier and nicer. Those who are not get less dances than older friendlier and nicer followers. No one talks about if you are really attractive or really good dancer, many men are intimidated to ask. That’s a real thing too. I think attractive women have to fend off unwanted advances all the time and develop a defensive barrier around them.
 
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TTanguero said:
Though Robin is coming from a somewhat different place, as his experience is mostly from a university tango club, so very young people.

He was arguing that we shouldn't be surprised that young people want to dance with partners their own age, and I think that makes more sense in that context – namely that in a typical milonga students would be finding people their grandparents' age, and also at that age you may be more likely to be seeking a romantic partner also.
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I have been going to neighborhood university club tango events on and off for 16 -17 years. Let’s assume there is a socialability quotient. In my observance it is much higher in young women than the young men. Young men tend to be more awkward socially. Add to that leading is hard. Only a few young men are able to compensate for lack of leading skills with being a smooth operator. Fewer still are as good dancers as older leaders with experience. Therefore a lot of younger men stick to one or two women they know.

Those young men and women who are good dancers and part of the tango community do dance more with their age group. That’s not surprising. Implicit in being a good dancer is that your skills and level is above average compared to the rest. It then becomes hard to separate the age preference from wanting to dance with better dancers. It is difficult to isolate which aspect is driving the behavior. Yes, the romance seeking angle is also ever present.

The challenge is there are multiple variables at play creating the non so simple social dynamics at milongas. It is futile to ascribe more weight to one variable over others. Pride, prejudices, fear, and greed all contribute to behavioral patterns.
 
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