Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon as styles of music

[Bailango]

Find this video as a YouTube suggestion suggestion from the second video posted in the other thread on learning from online video:


It is an interesting take. They categorize the style of music and the period when it was composed as - Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon.

Found another video by the same couple to start a different thread.

 

[opendoor]

..It is an interesting take. They categorize the style of music and the period when it was composed as - Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon..

I have a completely different opinion, as you surely remember from my many posts about tango styles.

 

[Brummbaer]

It is an interesting take. They categorize the style of music and the period when it was composed as - Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon.

Found another video by the same couple to start a different thread.

It's a valid perspective. As they also say: develop your own style. (But, at some level, there are also dancers who dance pure 'tango' to milonga**, and don't appreciate the difference between vals and tango)

**There are elements which work in both, and milonga, as sometimes played, may encompass porteña (urbana) and campera, but I've seen dancers doing lyrical movements to milonga, which don't even fit the rhythm.

Personally I've appreciated this perspective as well:


I've had other 'maestro' teachers providing musicality with a similar (not identical) perspective.

Probably worthwhile remembering that each generation (and barrio) had its own take. We're not in that situation.

You could also look at the books by Joaquín Amenábar (Tango: Let's dance to the music)

 

[ArbeeNYC]

It is an interesting take. They categorize the style of music and the period when it was composed as - Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon.

Saw this a long time ago. It's interesting. Possibly useful. However, I disagree with the need to use a different dance "style" for different types of music. You should dance them differently but I've never seen the need to change one's style of dancing. Is there a "Guardia Vieja" style?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

You could also look at the books by Joaquín Amenábar (Tango: Let's dance to the music)

Those are very interesting. I have one of them but haven't finished it yet. Had to put it aside.

 

[Rabbit]

I don't agree with these approaches which essentially go:

music -> classification -> do the script from that classification

I advocate the direct:

change in musical parameters -> change in dance parameters

I think the classification layer loses detail and weakens the direct connection to the music.

 

[Bailango]

I have a completely different opinion, as you surely remember from my many posts about tango styles.

I thought you once said you change your tango dance style according to the music?

If I recall when you talked tango style it was in context of style of embrace, which how the tango styles are usually discussed. Here in the OP video they are assigning the same labels to categorize the tango music itself.

 

[pianistamediano]

It would be boring to do the same thing to the same music every time.

 

[Bailango]

It's a valid perspective.

I am neutral about the perspective. I don’t have any strong opinions to support or oppose. But it is first time I am seeing categorization of the music itself along those labels.

As they also say: develop your own style.

Yes I saw that

(But, at some level, there are also dancers who dance pure 'tango' to milonga**, and don't appreciate the difference between vals and tango)

How do you infer that?

I find it strange if they want to dance tango movement to milonga or Val’s. It looks out of place and doesn’t match the music. Hence unmusical in my books.

Personally I've appreciated this perspective as well:

Will have to check.

You could also look at the books by Joaquín Amenábar (Tango: Let's dance to the music)

I bought it during the Covid. I converted the book to pdf and the DVD to MP4 for each chapter. I seen all the videos. The book I read about 30% and recently was planning to read it all. There was also a CD that came with the book if I recall. I have converted it to MP3. So everything is on phone.

I wanted to attend his in-person seminar. He was here last year second half but I couldn’t attend. Next time he is in town I plan to attend.

 

[Bailango]

Saw this a long time ago. It's interesting. Possibly useful. However, I disagree with the need to use a different dance "style" for different types of music. You should dance them differently but I've never seen the need to change one's style of dancing. Is there a "Guardia Vieja" style?

When watching the video I didn’t see them change the dance “style”.

 

[Bailango]

I advocate the direct:

change in musical parameters -> change in dance parameters

I might be mistaken or missing the detail. When I look at their dancing, that is what they seem to be doing.

 

[Bailango]

It would be boring to do the same thing to the same music every time.

That would be a choreography. I do not believe they are advocating doing same thing to the sane music.

 

[opendoor]

…If I recall when you talked tango style it was in context of style of embrace, which how the tango styles are usually discussed. Here in the OP video they are assigning the same labels to categorize the tango music itself.

No, I never reduced it to the embrace. And I‘m longer in tango than those guys in the vids. For me, styles also include the interpretation of the music and, consequently, the choice of music. The vocabulary is also style-dependent. I consider style a dialect, and my personal ambition was to speak four dialects.

Many here on DF found that somewhat offensive. Perhaps because I was essentially expressing a certain contempt. People see dialects and confessions as a form of orientation. I recall that my statement, "d'Arienzo doesn't fit into tango de salón," caused some outrage here. The dancers want to apply the same sauce to every tango, i.e., not adapt their dancing to the specific music.

I learned the milonguero style from a milonguero veteran and tango de salón from an Urquiza dissident. And, of course, I asked both of them about their music choices. There is that association of music and style, regardless of whether one wants to cultivate it as a traditional asset or disregard it.

I'd also like to mention that I've stylistically labeled my music library from the very beginning. As a DJ, I follow the TTVTTM scheme, but TT means for me that tango del club (d'Arienzo) is always followed by tango de salón (di Sarli) (for example).

 

[Brummbaer]

I advocate the direct:

change in musical parameters -> change in dance parameters

I agree. That's the basic. However there are other styles of approach even if one picks an era. Still a topic of investigation for me, so following information is suspect! I've been told (by Argentinians, some of whom lived in those areas) that the style in La Boca (with Italian ethnicity) differed from, say Villa Urquiza (more Spanish ethnicity), even for music of the same era. The Italian influence gave sharper, more rapid moves in elements (biased reporter!). And perhaps gave a preferred style of music.

But that's just a historical impact which doesn't particularly affect how we dance today elsewhere - unless you like that and apply those parameters.

 

[opendoor]

..that the style in La Boca (with Italian ethnicity) differed from, say Villa Urquiza (more Spanish ethnicity), even for music of the same era. The Italian influence gave sharper, more rapid moves in elements (biased reporter!). And perhaps gave a preferred style of music..

However, it must also be considered that the styles were named after influential clubs, attracted visitors from across the region, and sometimes differed significantly from the style of the surrounding neighborhood. Furthermore, these clubs relocated several times.