By observing! Usually beginners/novices who don't know the common styles in a more traditional AT milonga. Sometimes it turns out as someone who learnt 'tango' at some add-on to a dance form like WCS, ceroc, etc, but didn't get information about vals or milonga, and now visit a more traditional milonga. Maybe a couple from the ballroom world. But there are occasionally people who you think should know better - maybe a 'blocker' for the ronda during vals.
Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon as styles of music
- Thread starter Bailango
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There are now 2 books (eBooks), so you can have them, and the music and videos, on your phone (and your phone can also read them to you with some apps!)
You might also look at Michael Lavocah. Unfortunately I've missed seminars he's given more locally when I've been travelling abroad.
Yes, but I'm considering the influence on the style from the major ethnicity and lifestyle of local originators, which then became the popular clubs known for that 'style', and gave their name.
But it's just saying that there were other influencers than the era of music, but that in itself is a good basis.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
No, I don't mean exactly the same thing, you're interpreting it too strictly; rather, I'm arguing against being as prescriptive as how they're presenting the topic.
I thought you meant that was preferred approach of those in the original video
which surprised me leading to the question. We all keep complaining here about people who dance to milonga or vals like it is tango.
And you can assign different styles of dancing to each of those depending on parameters you consider relevant. All part of social AT!
TTanguero
Forum Master
I'd state it even more simply as: dance what we feel, in this moment of this song with this partner.
The idea of adopting a particular dance style for a massively broad category of songs, and applying that regardless of what we are hearing and feeling at the time seems bizarre to me.
Everyone's got to start somewhere!
Was there ever a time when you didn't know? When you sought advice from others? Observed how others did it?
You may complain about how others dance, or lack of floorcraft, but they're basically ignorant: some grossly; some in minor aspects. And we all are in relation to certain aspects of life - and dance, and music. So you make a start. So-called 'inch pebbles' are a good way of of progressing in any project. It's not so bizarre to start with someone else's concept and proceed from there. Did you start with an inbuilt knowledge and appreciation of music for AT? Or did you learn it from somewhere?
opendoor
Forum Master
But if you advocate for such individualization, it's difficult to maintain a certain coherence on the dance floor. Therefore, your statement surprises me, because you've always demanded more commitment than I have, or am I mistaken, TTanguero? Therefore, I do expect a basic classification of music and styles.
Many of the dance students don't have the language of how to express things in dance yet, the question is which variation of the language and how to teach it
I prefer the approach where you hear one feature of the music and here are some options for responding to this - it's universal and can be applied to any dance and any music, not just tango
At a more advanced level the following exercises should be useful:
Put on a random piece of non-tango music, dance at least 80% tango vocabulary, observe how you change the way you dance
Put on a random piece of tango music, dance at least 80% non-tango vocabulary, again observe
brujo
Well-Known Member
there are two of them. Volume II specifically dives into the differences in the different eras. One of the main points is that the newer evolutions have more interesting musical patterns that a dancer can then use to dance compared to older styles that lack this innovation. Hence the dance ends up different because of the periods.
The second book is very very different than the first one.
brujo
Well-Known Member
I asked AI to broadly summarize the dancing styles from that book and this is what I got:
1. Tango-Milonga Era (1870–1915)
• Musical Style: This period utilized a fixed, uniform rhythmic pattern derived from the milonga and habanera.
• Dancing Style: Movements were strict and uniform. Because the rhythmic accents never changed, dancers moved in constant coincidence with the fixed beat, offering very little dynamic variety or phrasing.
2. The Sextet Period (1927–1931)
• Musical Style: Intimate and nostalgic, this era prioritized a melodic system of contrasts between smooth and sharp phrasings.
• Dancing Style: Dancers gained a vast array of expressive possibilities. The dance shifted toward capturing the "languor" of the violins and "heaviness" of the bandoneon, focusing on slow, melodic movements and "dragged" accents.
3. The Acceleration Era (1930s)
• Musical Style: The four-beat basic rhythm gradually displaced the melody as the dominant, louder, and faster element.
• Dancing Style: The dance evolved through three stages of increasing intensity:
• Early 30s: A balance between melody and a more perceptible rhythmic base.
• Mid 30s: Movements became staccato and vivacious to match a clearer, more active beat.
• Late 30s: The dance peaked in high energy and action, where dancers followed the dominant rhythmic marking often at the expense of melodic detail.
4. The 1940s: Restoration and Diversification
• Musical Style: Orchestras split into two camps: those prioritizing complex melodic syncopation and those sticking to a strong, clear beat.
• Dancing Style:
• Melodic Priority (e.g., Pugliese, Di Sarli): Dancers followed the varied melodic rhythm. This required deep synchronization with the phrasing, allowing both partners to move as "followers" of the melody.
• Rhythm Priority (e.g., D’Arienzo, Biagi): The dance remained rhythmic and energetic, focusing on constant, predictable movement to the clear beat rather than melodic nuances.
5. The Era of the Singer (Late 1940s–1950s)
• Musical Style: The singer became the central focus, often stretching vowels and dramatizing lyrics in a way that moved away from the steady rhythm.
• Dancing Style: Because the vocalists often distorted the melodic timing, dancers were frequently forced to abandon the melody. To stay in time, they returned to the basic rhythmic base, leading to a loss of the rich melodic connection seen in the previous decade.
1. Tango-Milonga Era (1870–1915)
• Musical Style: This period utilized a fixed, uniform rhythmic pattern derived from the milonga and habanera.
• Dancing Style: Movements were strict and uniform. Because the rhythmic accents never changed, dancers moved in constant coincidence with the fixed beat, offering very little dynamic variety or phrasing.
2. The Sextet Period (1927–1931)
• Musical Style: Intimate and nostalgic, this era prioritized a melodic system of contrasts between smooth and sharp phrasings.
• Dancing Style: Dancers gained a vast array of expressive possibilities. The dance shifted toward capturing the "languor" of the violins and "heaviness" of the bandoneon, focusing on slow, melodic movements and "dragged" accents.
3. The Acceleration Era (1930s)
• Musical Style: The four-beat basic rhythm gradually displaced the melody as the dominant, louder, and faster element.
• Dancing Style: The dance evolved through three stages of increasing intensity:
• Early 30s: A balance between melody and a more perceptible rhythmic base.
• Mid 30s: Movements became staccato and vivacious to match a clearer, more active beat.
• Late 30s: The dance peaked in high energy and action, where dancers followed the dominant rhythmic marking often at the expense of melodic detail.
4. The 1940s: Restoration and Diversification
• Musical Style: Orchestras split into two camps: those prioritizing complex melodic syncopation and those sticking to a strong, clear beat.
• Dancing Style:
• Melodic Priority (e.g., Pugliese, Di Sarli): Dancers followed the varied melodic rhythm. This required deep synchronization with the phrasing, allowing both partners to move as "followers" of the melody.
• Rhythm Priority (e.g., D’Arienzo, Biagi): The dance remained rhythmic and energetic, focusing on constant, predictable movement to the clear beat rather than melodic nuances.
5. The Era of the Singer (Late 1940s–1950s)
• Musical Style: The singer became the central focus, often stretching vowels and dramatizing lyrics in a way that moved away from the steady rhythm.
• Dancing Style: Because the vocalists often distorted the melodic timing, dancers were frequently forced to abandon the melody. To stay in time, they returned to the basic rhythmic base, leading to a loss of the rich melodic connection seen in the previous decade.
I'm certainly dubious of anything AI comes up with, or invents, unless it's specifically indexed the information. And fact checked against the documented information. But I'd allow earlier than that, until recorded information is sparser. Maybe 1920's. We have more evidence, at least in some other countries as well as Argentina, of the period after that.
Read the books!
opendoor
Forum Master
Rabbit, it's not a matter of belief. What the AI brujo replied was merely an echo of what's been publicly discussed. I've been observing discussions on this and similar topics for 20 years. I can even attribute what the AI is saying to individual DJs and tango influencers. The AI is exploiting blogs on this subject, and blogs aren't scientific sources, but rather opinions, assumptions, and distortions.