Guided Practica

[AndaBien]

Many of the ideas given above reflect my personal experience. Years ago I sponsored Friday night practicas for 3 months. The best dancers in the community showed up and practiced amongst themselves, and few other dancers attended. Less capable dancers had a really good opportunity to gain some better experience, and they were apparently not interested. Of course, one could observe that the better dancers are better just because they are willing to practice.

Another thing I've noticed is that people who are willing to practice don't seem to know what that means. I wonder if people think that by just dancing they are practicing. That's why I'm thinking about explaining "deliberate practice". I would not provide deliberate practice, just explain how to do it, and see if the idea got any traction.

And yes, I think people learn best when they provide their own personal investment, rather than merely submit themselves to training by another person.

 

[AndaBien]

Good morning, Bastet.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Yes, and what a splendid effort that was!

Steve's a hero.

The trouble is, it seems, most people simply don't want to put the effort into having to work themselves at improving. Even though such effort is self-evidently better value for money than, say, private classes.

The best dancers in the community showed up and practiced amongst themselves, and few other dancers attended. Less capable dancers had a really good opportunity to gain some better experience, and they were apparently not interested. Of course, one could observe that the better dancers are better just because they are willing to practice.

Well, yes

Another thing I've noticed is that people who are willing to practice don't seem to know what that means. I wonder if people think that by just dancing they are practicing.

The way I practice is that I usually have 1 or 2 things I might want to work on. Then, typically, during the warm-up dancing, I think of several other things, and I work with my partner through those instead.

The bonus of making lots of mistakes is that you're never short of stuff to work on.

 

[dchester]

and then they get annoyed when anyone who IS trying to use it as a practice/learning seesion stops to work something out, thus blocking LOD.

Yeah, at some practicas, people will go to the middle of the floor when they need to stop to work something out, and at others, they do it right in the line of dance. I don't really know if there's an "official" rule/code for how that's supposed to work.

 

[v22TTC]

I'd agree that 'guided practica' suggests class: 'assisted practica' is probably more ideal (teacher leaves you be but is on tap, as mentioned).

Not that there are any practicas of any description anywhere near me... which is really throwing a brick wall into the path of my development (especially when there are no private lessons either - for any price!)... and has led to such abominations as teaching/experimenting in the milongas....

Does anybody have any idea why people tend to not go to practicas, or how to successfully make them more attractive? I ask because it's clear that if there are to be practicas in my area, it'll be down to me to arrange/publicise and fund them (with, it seems, absolutely no help from any of the established teachers)....

 

[tangomonkey]

...Another thing I've noticed is that people who are willing to practice don't seem to know what that means. I wonder if people think that by just dancing they are practicing. That's why I'm thinking about explaining "deliberate practice". I would not provide deliberate practice, just explain how to do it, and see if the idea got any traction.

The musicians and ex-musicians here know you must always consciously and deliberately practice the basics and the technical aspects that apply to your instrument. Not just during the early learning stages, but forever. And we know it is impossible to play an instrument at a high level until you no longer think about any of these things when you play music. The goal of practice is to reach that level. To be effective, the practice session needs to be focused and goal oriented - "deliberate".

Saying something along these lines as they apply specifically to tango might help…just a thought from a musician who’s spent tens of thousands of hours practicing.

 

[bastet]

Good morning, Bastet.

morning!

 

[bastet]

I'd agree that 'guided practica' suggests class: 'assisted practica' is probably more ideal (teacher leaves you be but is on tap, as mentioned).

Not that there are any practicas of any description anywhere near me... which is really throwing a brick wall into the path of my development (especially when there are no private lessons either - for any price!)... and has led to such abominations as teaching/experimenting in the milongas....

Does anybody have any idea why people tend to not go to practicas, or how to successfully make them more attractive? I ask because it's clear that if there are to be practicas in my area, it'll be down to me to arrange/publicise and fund them (with, it seems, absolutely no help from any of the established teachers)....

We've had this topic come up in the past on occasion.

I'm mainly a follower and so I can only give you my opinion as to why I stopped going to practicas. (However, I hear this sentiment echoed so much that I doubt I am the only person to have experienced it.)

When I first went to practicas, I found myself being "corrected" by leaders with (often) contradictory advice to other leaders I had danced with, and also to teachers I had been to for private lessons so I began to feel like most leaders were attempting to "mold" me in to what they thought they needed, regardless of whether it was good technique on my part.

I began to be of the opinion that most leaders weren't really in the position of giving good advice for follower technique so I preferred to leave my "corrections" to my teachers in private lessons and began avoiding practicas. Conversely, at the time, I didn't lead so I also felt it was not my place to offer advice about what a leader needed to do to make his steps work.

I guess you can make of it what you will, but I do notice that ladies tend to go to practicas less than they do milongas in my area (and are often subjected to constant helpful "advice" at them). Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere?

I guess I would also add that the 3 times at practicas recently I have actually given advice on leading (now that I also lead), I am generally met with argument and/or resistance...not exactly something that makes me want to go to practica, since my opinion seems to count for so little anyway...

 

[Dave Bailey]

Does anybody have any idea why people tend to not go to practicas,

My assumption is simply that most people can't be bothered to put the effort in.

or how to successfully make them more attractive?

Nope. I wish I did.

I ask because it's clear that if there are to be practicas in my area, it'll be down to me to arrange/publicise and fund them (with, it seems, absolutely no help from any of the established teachers)....

Good luck... be prepared to put in vast amounts of work promoting them for little return though.

 

[jfm]

why does v want to run his own practica?

 

[Zoopsia59]

When I first went to practicas, I found myself being "corrected" by leaders with (often) contradictory advice to other leaders I had danced with, and also to teachers I had been to for private lessons so I began to feel like most leaders were attempting to "mold" me in to what they thought they needed, regardless of whether it was good technique on my part.

I began to be of the opinion that most leaders weren't really in the position of giving good advice for follower technique so I preferred to leave my "corrections" to my teachers in private lessons and began avoiding practicas. Conversely, at the time, I didn't lead so I also felt it was not my place to offer advice about what a leader needed to do to make his steps work.

Yep. BTDT and so has almost every follower I know.

 

[AndaBien]

...The way I practice is that I usually have 1 or 2 things I might want to work on. Then, typically, during the warm-up dancing, I think of several other things, and I work with my partner through those instead...

The bonus of making lots of mistakes is that you're never short of stuff to work on.

Of course, it wouldn't matter when anyone chose their topic, as long as they did choose one.

One of my early teachers, a gentleman who grew up in BA, told me that sometimes he would pick a step to work on at a milonga. He wouldn't actually practice it, but just sort of feature it in his dancing that evening. Maybe something like a leit-motif.

I've also noticed that people sometimes practice what they can already do, rather than practice something they have trouble with.

 

[tangomonkey]

I've also noticed that people sometimes practice what they can already do, rather than practice something they have trouble with.

Well, it's easy and more fun to "practice" what is easy for you. Working on the things you don't do well takes thought and effort.

Do you, and others, think it worthwhile for the host, at the start of the practica, to describe the reasons for a practice session. Might focus people on why they are there, ie. not to dance but to get better in some specific way. As a beginner I like (and need) clear instruction about everything.

Zopsia59 and Bastet. I guess there is not much point in going to a practica if leaders take on the (unasked for) role of teacher. That's not why you're there. How do you practice? Or are lessons and dancing in a milonga all you need at your level?

 

[Ampster]

Well, it's easy and more fun to "practice" what is easy for you. Working on the things you don't do well takes thought and effort.

Do you, and others, think it worthwhile for the host, at the start of the practica, to describe the reasons for a practice session. Might focus people on why they are there, ie. not to dance but to get better in some specific way. As a beginner I like (and need) clear instruction about everything.

Zopsia59 and Bastet. I guess there is not much point in going to a practica if leaders take on the (unasked for) role of teacher. That's not why you're there. How do you practice? Or are lessons and dancing in a milonga all you need at your level?

The practica is there for lead an follower to practice... anything in tango. That means, its OK to flub, teach, provide feedback, and work things out. This is joint learning between lead and follow. It's expected that both would have respect and honest/good feedback for each other... i.e. "Did I do that right?" "How did I feel when I did that?" "Did I knock you off balance?" "That didn't work, let's try this..." etc, etc, etc.

A guided practica is the same thing, except the organizer/instructor is there walks around, and is ready to jump in to provide feedback when something doesn't work quite right, or when asked.

All of this happens in a learning environment, so you don't have to do it in a real milonga.

 

[dchester]

The practica is there for lead an follower to practice... anything in tango. That means, its OK to flub, teach, provide feedback, and work things out. This is joint learning between lead and follow. It's expected that both would have respect and honest/good feedback for each other... i.e. "Did I do that right?" "How did I feel when I did that?" "Did I knock you off balance?" "That didn't work, let's try this..." etc, etc, etc.

A guided practica is the same thing, except the organizer/instructor is there walks around, and is ready to jump in to provide feedback when something doesn't work quite right, or when asked.

All of this happens in a learning environment, so you don't have to do it in a real milonga.

Unless you know the person fairly well, unsolicited feedback is risky (at best). Some of the women here have already posted, that's why they stopped going to practicas.

Other than with my wife (who I know kinda well), the only time I consider providing unsolicited feedback is right after I've received some. (I guess I'm a counter puncher at times.)

Sometimes I will ask for feedback, and other times I say something like, "I'm trying to figure out how I need to change my lead to keep XYZ from happening". While most problems are not exactly 50/50, they usually are not 100/0 either. I think things work out best when both people are willing to work on improving their own parts, and focus less on what their partner needs to do better/differently.