Has anyone ever achieved gold status on most of the 10 styles in 1 year?

[DL]

Did you find this thread? There was some good ideas in it
http://www.dance-forums.com/threads/the-quantal-shift-good-to-great-and-fast.30809/

There were some bad ideas in it too, IMHO.

I also always suspected there was at least one sock puppet there.

However if you want to read an abundance of emphatic assertions regarding the "right brain", well, it's the perfect thread for that.

 

[IngaSv]

Gene Kelly started dancing when he was 8, he was an athlete as a teenager, and was teaching dance when he was 20. His level of experience in the 50's is comparable to competitive professionals of today. Debbie had to somehow catch up, or in her words, get good enough to fake it. Dancing is dancing. Style doesn't change the story. No one else was offering stories of dancers who rose to the top of their class in a short time, so I did, and it is still more of a cautionary tale, than a glowing example.

Also I think you underestimate how good the dancers needed to be, and how demanding the industry was, for film making in the 40's and 50's. Producers hated second takes, it was expensive, and time consuming, so the dancers had to nail each number in one take, which took many hours of practice on tight schedules. Only a handful of male actors could pull this off, and producers and choreographers didn't even like giving anyone new a chance. It wasn't like today's movies where you can get a dozen do overs. Also, good female dancers were a dime a dozen, and they would all kill to dance with Fred or Gene. I dare say, the requirements were more akin to today's competitions. Auditions were like the first rounds of a championship, and if you happen to make it to the final, you only have one take to do 5 numbers to convince judges you are the champion.

I am aware of their histories as having dance training, and many other actors did in the era. I was not implying that their skill level is inferior to ballroom dancers as I mentioned in my comment just because the style is different. Just thought that it may be a slightly different learning process given the particularities of things like Cuban movement and hip rotations which are peculiar to ballroom dance specifically and are not present in other dance forms.

Some examples of ballroom people that started relatively late but were competitively successful are Carmen Vincelj and Mirko Gozzoli.

 

[carlosyabrudy]

Today's ballroom dancing is certainly more demanding. You could start learning open choreography straight away, that you are going to use a year from now. And through bleeding feet and determination, you could get that performance to a level to sway some judges and make a few callbacks. But you would miss out on building foundations. You could become a good performer, but not necessarily a good ballroom dancer.

It simply takes time to build foundation skills. And in the case of a leader, a bit longer.

In today's era we have something that they didn't have pre-2000.... and this is DVD material in High Resolution, Internet (youtube for Andy Wong, Egils Smagris etc) so that we can go home and continute to ingrain what we have learnt through additional material rather than go home to a house with no TV or Computer to continue with nuclear family life as back from 1900-2000. We also have a greater understanding of how we can retain information and learn it. I can only see this as a plus point of learning something in the 21st Century....

 

[carlosyabrudy]

It would be very cool and inspirational if someone actually did achieve the top level in all 10 styles in a year! OP, we're rooting for you!

I can't promise this will happen as I have asked the question but all I can promise is that I will be determined to reach this goal post I have drawn out at the other end of the field.... I will update with difficulties or large steps I encounter and I believe from what I have read from others that there are great minds here in this forum who are mega helpful which is greatly appreciated.

 

[carlosyabrudy]

I have encountered my first of what I consider to be areas of additional focus in order to speed up development.

I find that when I lead in a social environment with other members of the school who have learnt a set routine for Bronze or Silver level, that when I improvise, I get a response of "I don't know what you're doing" hence the leading not being there...

With regards to leading it can't be vocal... so by default it would mean that I need to communicate in advance of what I wish to do correct?

The follow is always delayed... by not too much but in my head, are questions like:
How can one lead for example, in Quickstep if going into a scatter chasses from a chasses to the right after a hesitation followed on from a natural spin turn? Or is this something that you could only agree on in advance so that the follow knew that you wanted to perform hops and runs etc? I know this is more advanced stuff but I am just curious because of having periods of quick quick quick quick quick quick etc....

 

[carlosyabrudy]

^^^This.

OP, one other thing for your "to-do" list... if you do not already, it's time to start listening to all sorts of music in your spare time, both mainstream and obscure. You should be able to identify which dance the song is without being told (e.g. is it a foxtrot, waltz, samba, cha cha, etc), and get a sense for what kind of expression it calls for - elegant, sassy, flirty, sad, etc. And let it move you.

Music has got to be my biggest thing in life being a 20 year pianist, 10 year guitarist, and listening to classical, heavy metal of all types, house music of all types, electronica, downtempo, lounge, modern hip hop... Once I became aware of the existence of foxtrot... i heard songs that I knew e.g. pink panther and recognised the foxtrot element and anything with threes, waltz and listening to stuff i have purchased mixed by DJ Ice has helped to bring the modern element in terms of how to turn well known songs into dance styles so they are useable... I can pretty much do this in my head with some songs i know... shame i don't have the mixing technology...

 

[snapdancer]

I find that when I lead in a social environment with other members of the school who have learnt a set routine for Bronze or Silver level, that when I improvise, I get a response of "I don't know what you're doing" hence the leading not being there...

It could be 1 of three things:
(1) As you say, the leading is not there. Or
(2) the following is not there. Or possibly even that
(3) neither the leading nor the following are there.

With regards to leading it can't be vocal... so by default it would mean that I need to communicate in advance of what I wish to do correct?

Yes. But the communication needs to be with your body, not with your mouth or a pre-arranged choreographed routine.

The follow is always delayed... by not too much but in my head, are questions like:
How can one lead for example, in Quickstep if going into a scatter chasses from a chasses to the right after a hesitation followed on from a natural spin turn? Or is this something that you could only agree on in advance so that the follow knew that you wanted to perform hops and runs etc? I know this is more advanced stuff but I am just curious because of having periods of quick quick quick quick quick quick etc....

If you perform the proper body actions and provide a good frame for your partner to connect to, and your partner connects properly to your frame, then she will follow. Some women will recognize this with little or no training, for others more training will be needed.

 

[RiseNFall]

With regards to leading it can't be vocal... so by default it would mean that I need to communicate in advance of what I wish to do correct?

You will be improving your leading throughout your entire dancing life. My guess is that you need to develop more sophisticated movement of your own body so that you are creating the shapes and movements in the follower...but as others have said, your follower has to have skills as well. It is true, however, that pretty much whatever the skill of the follower, a better leader will be easier to follow: as a beginner, I could certainly follow a lot more of what a good pro lead than what a typical student lead.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

what she said.... in spades

 

[IndyLady]

what she said.... in spades

This is a good life philosophy in general.

 

[flying_backwards]

I find that when I lead in a social environment with other members of the school who have learnt a set routine for Bronze or Silver level, that when I improvise... How can one lead for example, in Quickstep if going into a scatter chasses from a chasses to the right after...

If it were me you were leading, improvising with figures from the Bronze syllabus would have a higher rate of success than improvising with Open level figures such as a Scatter Chasse'.

We actually do have Quickstep here socially, which is wonderful. I do appreciate how rare that is. Sometimes leaders get carried away with the music and for fun they go into bits of their own routines, which may include higher level syllabus or even figures with hops and skips. I try my best to follow them, but it never goes as well as when they stay within the syllabus of figures I have learned. Of course I find it night-and-day easier to follow the more skilled leaders.

If by "improvising" you meant not even improvising which figures to do, but actually dancing motions not codified even as named variations, then even if you lead perfectly, the follower might lose her confidence. I do not know if other followers do this, but myself I mentally say the name of each figure as I am led thru it. This reassures me I'm parsing the input signal. If I do not recognize what I am being led, I do not trust my interpretation.

 

[carlosyabrudy]

Thanks guys

By improvising I mean eg Waltz routine we do in class is

Closed change, natural, closed, reverse, whisk and chasse, outside change into hesitation as part of spin turn, double reverse spin, progressive chasse to right, back lock, basic weave into reverse pivot .... etc

So if I change the order and improvise the order.... sometimes the lead is thrown off. Is this because in their heads they have that predetermined routine as it is cemented or once again I probably think my leading is the cause so hence my question about dvds to do with following or websites like ballroom dancers.com with great explanations to why figures are done and not just the what. I love detailed explanations and it's almost like the feeling of a really cold beer for my brain reading that stuff. Anyone get the same with detailed explanations that go as deep as possible?

 

[snapdancer]

Detailed explanations are good, but only as a starting point. Focused practice is required so that your body movements are consistently proper.

 

[twnkltoz]

Thanks guys

By improvising I mean eg Waltz routine we do in class is

Closed change, natural, closed, reverse, whisk and chasse, outside change into hesitation as part of spin turn, double reverse spin, progressive chasse to right, back lock, basic weave into reverse pivot .... etc

So if I change the order and improvise the order.... sometimes the lead is thrown off. Is this because in their heads they have that predetermined routine as it is cemented or once again I probably think my leading is the cause so hence my question about dvds to do with following or websites like ballroom dancers.com with great explanations to why figures are done and not just the what. I love detailed explanations and it's almost like the feeling of a really cold beer for my brain reading that stuff. Anyone get the same with detailed explanations that go as deep as possible?

It's impossible for us to say what the problem was, and that's why you need an instructor to answer for you. You might think you're doing everything they said on the video, but you're actually not. Or not good enough/correctly/at the right time. Or it's the follower. There are a number of factors that can go wrong in all different combinations.

 

[Requiem]

As a relatively new leader myself, I think I find more success in leading when there isn't an expectation of doing a particular routine. Whenever I start doing a routine and deviate in the middle, the follower usually continues on with the routine. On the other hand, they are often more receptive if the plan is just to lead and follow. You could try telling them in advance that you do not plan to follow the routine, or ask them if it's ok that you do so. That way, they know to look for your cues, rather than just focusing on remembering what comes next.

I think it's perfectly ok to just do the class routines for a while though, particularly if the followers are also relatively new. It reduces the amount of things to have to think about, so that you both can just focus on dancing the figures correctly and with good technique. I think it also takes some time to know what figures make sense in what order, for both partners. Having that information greatly reduces the amount of uncertainty there is, since there are really only a handful of possibilities instead of the entire syllabus.