Has Buenos Aires lost its tango soul?

[opendoor]

To me that’s off the mark. Clique usually carries negative connotations. Cliques acts in an exclusionary way (and more specifically in social dance settings, it does so publicly)..

Well, for me, clique and peer group are two sides of the same coin, Bailango.
If you see it negatively, then you feel excluded. But the outward appearance of a clique often doesn't reflect the mindset of the group's members. There are many people who are incredibly envious of group members simply because they don't belong to them and unsuccessfully struggle to build their own network.
Furthermore, someone like that, maybe you too, operates under the assumption that in social dancing, everyone dances with everyone else. But this assumption doesn't apply to a tango milonga. Only those who openly show mirada and cabeceo participate in that interplay.

 

[Rabbit]

Cliqueness runs on the same rails as nepotism, legacy admissions (a USA elite university thing), cronyism, etc. A rung below “old boys network). All these also ignore merit, level playing field, unspoken rules that the affinity group accepts, greater good, etc.

You just described the various organiser/teacher networks, which indeed have absolutely nothing to do with ability.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I have a weird point of comparison. Four minute blues and fusion dances with some of the same people I tango with. Honestly, the duration is not as intense and important that a lot of tango dancers elevate to a pedestal. I’ve also gotten that kind of connection in shorter alt tango sets.

As they say, YMMV.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

You're speaking my mind. Because I have a disability, my limit is 5 tandas (without vals) and 4 with a vals tanda. I've totally given up milonga or salsa because they're so hard on my knees. Vals also is destructive, but I just can't do without it.

It's not only physical (I have my own physical limitations). I think it's a matter of emotional surfeit. Bad tandas leave you hungry, good ones leave you comfortable, but great ones are so satisfying that you could easily sit out the remainder of the evening. (And you also know you probably won't duplicate them again that night.)

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Then I'd say that there are actually very few existing cliques, if we go by that definition? (Forgive me for spitballing here) Even if we establish some arbitrary threshold as a (approximate, not exact) standard like, say, at least one dancer in the clique dances with at least one external dancer once every few (5? 6? 10?) milongas, I struggle to think of any cliques I've regularly noticed at local milongas or events that meet a threshold lile that. Do you have any examples from your own experience?

Of course. There are no numerical requirements. But cliques, in general, always tend to be small. And sure, people who are part of a clique can, and do, sometimes dance with those outside it if they so choose. Not all communities have cliques, some may be too small for them to form or too immature (recently formed, not enough experienced dancers), but they certainly exist.

 

[itwillhappen]

Yes, but that is not a clique. A clique is an arbitrarily exclusive group. Members of a clique dance among themselves no matter where they go. They have no interest in those outside the clique. Everyone is selective to a certain extent, we tend to favor certain dance partners and not others. But that doesn't mean we are part of a clique.

I have certainly seen "cliques" that danced exclusively with one another. These were invariably groups of mediocre dance-class partners. Going to a milonga together is the advice they are given, after all; if they are happy with that, some will keep doing it for years, and that is perfectly fine.

A "clique" of relative mediocre dancers doesn't bother anyone - quite the opposite.
When faced with desired and uninterested dance partners, our ego finds many ways to avoid or reframe the experience of rejection.

 

[itwillhappen]

You just described the various organiser/teacher networks, which indeed have absolutely nothing to do with ability.

Ability for what?
I don't think that organizers/teachers differ fundamentally from other tango dancers - aside from different personal interests.

 

[Rabbit]

Coming from you, that means a lot. Hope to see you again when I go back later this year!

We can go for chicken and you can criticize my performances if you want!

 

[itwillhappen]

Cliqueness runs on the same rails as nepotism, legacy admissions (a USA elite university thing), cronyism, etc. A rung below “old boys network). All these also ignore merit, level playing field, unspoken rules that the affinity group accepts, greater good, etc.

Tango is mostly a leisure activity and therefore not subject to the regulations that apply in working life and sports competitions!
It starts with the fact that everyone has the freedom to choose their dance partners, so tango is by no way a meritocracy. In tango, we have the narrative of the revered "milongueros viejos" who sit in groups at their tables and, with a stern gaze, decide who is worthy to dance with them and who is not. (But I suppose that's just a distorted image of the social realities of the past by modern tango.)

 

[pianistamediano]

We can go for chicken and you can criticize my performances if you want!

Prepare thy videos!

 

[pianistamediano]

In tango, we have the narrative of the revered "milongueros viejos" who sit in groups at their tables and, with a stern gaze, decide who is worthy to dance with them and who is not. (But I suppose that's just a distorted image of the social realities of the past by modern tango.)

To be fair, I'm fairly certain many, many dancers have done this to varying degrees!

 

[opendoor]

To be fair.. many dancers have done this to varying degrees!

After a year of group lessons, my first tango teacher, an very old Uruguayo, took me to all the milongas in my city (out of friendship, not privates). Then we'd sit in the darkest corner and went through everyone there one by one with a mocking facial expression.

 

[opendoor]

..when I go back later this year!

Show me your calendar. Are you coming to Hamburg too?

 

[opendoor]

..not only physical ..but great tandas are so satisfying that you could easily sit out the remainder of the evening. (And you also know you probably won't duplicate them again that night.)

After such a tanda, I always say, "this can't be topped, so I'm leaving right now, CU" and immediately will change my shoes and go. With physical limitations, one has to concentrate on the few diamonds.
And that's not cliqueiness, Bailango, that's a survival kit.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

In tango, we have the narrative of the revered "milongueros viejos" who sit in groups at their tables and, with a stern gaze, decide who is worthy to dance with them and who is not. (But I suppose that's just a distorted image of the social realities of the past by modern tango.)

And can just as easily be ignored by the ladies on the opposite side of the room. I don't think they were all that stern though.